Eric (pelton) thanks for cool accurate info!

Have you been to the new (2 years new) McLaren Center outside
of London ??

Marty K

 

Thanks for the info man really appreciate it. Do you happen to own one of the holy grails?

 

Peloton25,

I sincerely appreciate your replies to my questions and the questions of others as well. Thank you. Also thank you for the QV500 link. It's great!

I got a few more questions.

1) Any idea how many miles LM3 has? I remember reading that when Mr. Selldorff bought the car from Mr. Morrison, it had somewhere in the region of 3K miles. Any idea how many miles Mr. Selldorff put on it? Also do you know for how much ($) LM3 transferred hands for (Selldorff to Lauren)? In the $2.5 - $3 million range? Does Mr. Lauren actually drive the car or is it sitting in storage? And how the heck did Mr. Selldorff make the LM street legal in the US? I remember seeing some vids of him driving it away from TMS.

2) Has LM2 ever been seen in Japan on public roads or maybe at some track events? I'm asking this just to figure out if it has some actual mileage on it put on by the owner. Or is it just a garage queen like LM1, LM4, and LM5?

3) Is this Mr. Tsuzuki the owner of an F50GT as well? I read a report saying that two of the 3 F50GT's are in Japan. Is one in in the Okamoto collection and the other in the Tsuzuki collection? I know Art still has his. Did Mr. Tsuzuki acquire his F50GT recently? Recently meaning within a year to two years. I remember seeing an ad by a British agency listing a GT a while back. Also who has which? Chassis number wise.

4) I know you've seen the Martin Brundle Supercars video. In it we saw Martin going over three F1's. A longtail, a LM, and a road car. Was the longtail XP56 GT? Was the LM number XPLM? Any idea on the number of the road car? Is XP56GT still owned by the factory or has it changed hands?

5) As you said previously, 58F1GT is in the Tsuzuki collection. He still has it? Any idea where the 54F1GT is? What do you think their values are? I know there is no actual number but what do you think they're worth. Also do you by chance have any pics of 58F1GT and 54F1GT?

6) Will the factory still take in road cars to have the HDF package and LM spec engine installed? Or have they stopped doing that? Going rate ($) for either of these packages?

7) I would love to see some more pics of that Bahrain GTR.

8) Any info on the F1 that was produced from spare parts by a Japanese race team (SP)? Pics maybe? Was it a roadcar or a GTR?

That's a whole lot of questions, I know. Thank you very much once again.

By the way I'm guessing you have seen these pics? We have to thank member Erik for the great photos.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ad.php?t=38733

 

Hey Marty - you're certainly welcome. Unfortunately I haven't made it over to England yet. It's on 'the list' as they say.

No holy grail here, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Actually I'm not sure if you were just being funny, or if that's an actual question? We F1 fans sacrilegiously refer to "Driving Ambition" as 'The Bible' from time to time, so if you mean something like that, I'm not sure I follow.

I do have an original F1 Launch Brochure, a rather rare F1 GT longtail road car brochure, and I also managed to pick up a "McLaren" badge that supposedly came off the back of GTR #10R.



>8^)
ER

 

Wow - he's relentless.

1) Any idea how many miles LM3 has? I remember reading that when Mr. Selldorff bought the car from Mr. Morrison, it had somewhere in the region of 3K miles. Any idea how many miles Mr. Selldorff put on it? Also do you know for how much ($) LM3 transferred hands for (Selldorff to Lauren)? In the $2.5 - $3 million range? Does Mr. Lauren actually drive the car or is it sitting in storage? And how the heck did Mr. Selldorff make the LM street legal in the US? I remember seeing some vids of him driving it away from TMS.

You're correct - the car had roughly 3200 miles when it came to the USA. I'm not sure how many miles Frank and the boys at Turner managed to add to the car but I would guess ~1000 at most. The original rumored sale price of LM3 to Lauren was $2.75M, but a later source with a few more ounces of credibility said the actual figure was closer to $4M. I know that Lauren has driven the car, and does get occasional use out of at least one of his road cars. I don't know how frequently the LM sees use, but I have yet to see any photos of it since Lauren acquired it, so probably not too often.

As for how he got the LM federalized, I think it took a lot of these $$$$$. I don't know how the EPA was satisfied on their OBD-II requirements, but I do know that a set of the catalysts normally found on the road cars was fitted. The car was never really registered when he had it - they drove it around wearing a Massachusetts "Repair" plate which is similar to a dealer plate in many other states.

2) Has LM2 ever been seen in Japan on public roads or maybe at some track events? I'm asking this just to figure out if it has some actual mileage on it put on by the owner. Or is it just a garage queen like LM1, LM4, and LM5?

To my knowledge LM2 has never been spotted outside the museum, but that doesn't really prove anything.

3) Is this Mr. Tsuzuki the owner of an F50GT as well? I read a report saying that two of the 3 F50GT's are in Japan. Is one in in the Okamoto collection and the other in the Tsuzuki collection? I know Art still has his. Did Mr. Tsuzuki acquire his F50GT recently? Recently meaning within a year to two years. I remember seeing an ad by a British agency listing a GT a while back. Also who has which? Chassis number wise.

I don't believe that Tsuzuki is the owner of that F50 GT. Okamoto owns #002 and Art has #001. The #003 car began life with Jim Spiro in the USA, was auctioned by RM in ~2000 and went to Autralia (owner's name escapes me at the moment) and while there the car spent most of its time on the showroom floor of Maranello Motorsport in Melbourne. From there it went to the UK and was listed for sale by Duncan Hamilton (the British agency) who then sold it on to someone (yet to be determined) in Japan. That same person may also own the longtail Gulf GTR that has been spotted in Japan, as well as #051, a green F1 road car. Since none of those cars have shown up in the ZAZ museum at any point in time I'd tend to guess there is a 3rd person/entity involved with those cars.

4) I know you've seen the Martin Brundle Supercars video. In it we saw Martin going over three F1's. A longtail, a LM, and a road car. Was the longtail XP56 GT? Was the LM number XPLM? Any idea on the number of the road car? Is XP56GT still owned by the factory or has it changed hands?

Yes, the longtail was 56XPGT. The LM was XP1 LM. The road car was chassis #065, the silver car that had spent many years sitting in the McLaren showroom on Park Lane in London. They finally sold that car and it ended up in Singapore at the same place chassis #018 was recently spotted. The dealership there is called Automobil Manufcatur, but I don't know who's behind that operation. I have heard that they had to pay import duties in Singapore at 100% of the value of the cars - that can't be a fun tax bill to pay on something like an F1.

5) As you said previously, 58F1GT is in the Tsuzuki collection. He still has it? Any idea where the 54F1GT is? What do you think their values are? I know there is no actual number but what do you think they're worth. Also do you by chance have any pics of 58F1GT and 54F1GT?

Tsuzuki may have sold the burgundy GT (58F1GT) as it's not been pictured in the museum for almost a year. It's also no longer listed on the marquee there. It's possible he has just chose to store the car elsewhere, but it makes more sense that it may have been sold. To where, I don't have a clue. The black GT is still a bit of a mystery. One story claims it went to the Brunei Royal Family and another has it hidden away in a collection in the UK owned by a man named John Studdlehome (SP?). If anyone has any leads, I'm all ears.

6) Will the factory still take in road cars to have the HDF package and LM spec engine installed? Or have they stopped doing that? Going rate ($) for either of these packages?

BMW has stopped building new S/70 engines, so I think the days of having an LM-spec one installed are over. The High Downforce Kit should still be available. With a full respray and top ot bottom servicing which should be done when the car is apart, I think your looking at about $200,000 or so. I know that GTR #16R was sent back to the factory last year to be refitted and the cost to paint the car, redo the interior to appear similar to an LM, and service it ran close to $80,000.

7) I would love to see some more pics of that Bahrain GTR.





8) Any info on the F1 that was produced from spare parts by a Japanese race team (SP)? Pics maybe? Was it a roadcar or a GTR?

The QV500 story on that is a bit misleading. The car was actually rebuilt from spare parts, which is quite a bit different than being produced from spares. The chassis number is 25R and the car had a bad fire at LeMans in 1997. I believe they rounded up spares from other teams in order to put the car back together for Hitotsuyama. It was still racing in the All Japan GT Championship as of last year - it's the last remaining GTR still competing in true racing anywhere in the world.

That's a whole lot of questions, I know. Thank you very much once again.

No problem - I don't mind answering the ones where the answer is clear. Sometimes I hate speculating because you can end up being wrong or some people will take speculation as fact and run with it. I try to make it clear when something is a guess or assumption.

I have seen those already, but thanks.

>8^)
ER

 

Peloton25,

Thank you once again.

Three more questions and I'll leave you at peace.

1) Do you by chance have any pics of 58F1GT and 54F1GT?

2) Where is GTR#016R currently located? I saw that Maranello Motorsport sold it a while back. Any idea who owns it currently?

3) How many McLaren F1's does the Sultan of Brunei supposedly have? I've heard that he supposedly has 8 road cars. True or untrue?

I might have some more questions in the future. I will PM you at Automotive Forums when I think of them, that is if you don't mind?

Thanks again.

 

Riiiiight...

Whatever works for you is fine with me.

>8^)
ER

 

Thank you.

I'll be in touch.

 

you're a nice fella, erik!

 

Peloton25, your knowledge on the F1 is rather impressive.

Any chance you know who this car belongs to?



I believe its the only F1 in Australia and is located somewhere in Melbourne, VIC.

 

anyone have pics of the Midland, TX car after its repaint? Its the only one I've seen in person.. it was silver at the time and I saw in-progress paint pics shortly after. as far as i know it was becoming rosso corsa to match his enzo.

 

You would be correct - it's currently the only F1 in Australia and it is chassis #009. Might as well tell the full story as I know it.

The car's original owner was Dean Wills, the CEO of Coca-Cola Amatil. The story goes that Mr Wills had some connections through his business to someone in the Australian government who was able to help him import the F1 for road use. As I am sure you know only RHD cars are allowed on the roads in Australia, but an exception was made for the F1. Mr Wills allowed the car to be shown at the Sydney Motorshow one year, but for the most part was a rather private owner who didn't let the car out all that often. I have heard he actually has a race track on his property, but can't confirm.

This car was actually wrecked very badly during the time Wills had it by a mechanic at the local BMW center where he took the car for servicing. Here's a shot of it in it's damaged state.



The car was originally silver and I have a few pics of it pre-crash, but during the rebuild he had the car repainted that darker shade of grey as seen in your pics, and also had the wheels color matched to the body which I think looks great.

Tony Raftis, the owner of Maranello Motorsport, purchased the car from Dean Wills in early 2005 and had the car on display in his showroom in Melbourne for a couple of months. He had the wheels repainted to the standard silver color - personally I would have left them alone. The car was displayed by MM at the Melbourne Grand Prix in 2005. At the end of the summer the car was sold to a man named Barry Fitzgerald who I have heard owns all the McDonalds locations in Victoria. Who knew those Big Macs were profitable enough to be able to afford the real big Mac?

Fitzgerald should still be the car's current owner and I do believe that he does use the car often - it's not just a garage queen. It was displayed again in a tent at this year's Melbourne Grand Prix and has been spotted once or twice out and about in the past year on the roads of Australia.

Finishing up the story on F1s down under, Maranello Motorsport also purchased 2 F1 GTRs last year - one through Duncan Hamilton in the UK (#16R) and the other out of the ZAZ Museum in Japan (#13R). Tony had the one in the UK refitted by McLaren to look like an LM before it travelled to Australia but left the Japanese car alone. Both didn't last long on the for sale list there and were sold to the UK and Europe. There were only a few days where both GTRs were there together. I have some pics of the pair together, but have been asked not to share them.

XP4 - the blue car now owned by Larry Blair - was first sold to a Sir Roger Bhatnagar of New Zealand who may have had a connection to McLaren through the late Bruce McLaren's family. He owned the car for about 6 years before selling it in 2000 to Blair. That's the only other F1 I'm aware of that's spent time in that region of the world.

>8^)
ER

 

Wow! Thanks!

 

Our source for photos on that car (#042) became upset when people made some very negative comments about the conditions of the car and the shop when it was in pieces for the repaint, so he pulled those pics off the net and has not shared any new ones. I kind of agreed with their sentiments, but it's Mr Beal's car and his money so he can really do what he wants with it. So far I have yet to see any shots of the car painted red.

>8^)
ER

 

Also Peloton. Don't suppose you've got more pictures of that specific car?