yes please

 

This is one of the best reads I can ever remember. Thanks a lot. Do you have any personal driving experiences with any form of the F1??

 

Could this be it? I can't thank you enough for the info you've taken the time to give us. I am more of a powerboat guy but the McLaren F1 puts me into a trance. Thanks again, and here's a pic of a red one. Possibly the one you are looking for?

 

About 100 or so. I don't have them hosted, but would be willing to share some of the better ones with you. Shoot me an email - Peloton25@hotmail.com

Here you go: 1024x768 - 1280x960 - 1600x1200

I also thought it would be sweet to crop the image down to just the LM and GT to make a separate image. Since this image was created from the largest version of the one above, it's a bit soft, but still wonderful.


Clickable

As icing on this wonderful cake, there is one more image you should enjoy. This is #053:


Clickable as well

= = = = = =

Here are two other scans from that issue of Rosso magazine that are cool to see.


Yeah, you guessed it - both clickable

Thanks! I appreciate the kind words and am happy to share.

I haven't driven an F1, but one very generous new F1 owner did invite me up to Monterey last summer for a ride in chassis #068 - a silver road car. I posted the details of that encounter on another forum I participate on and they turned it into a feature on their website which you can read here:

http://www.thecarlounge.net/news/pub...inter_60.shtml

Unfortunately no, that is chassis #028, the car formerly owned by Clifford Meltzer. That image was taken when Silicon Valley Auto Group had the car listed for sale late last year. It's safe to assume that if #042 was really repainted in Rossa Corsa that it looks quite similar, however the interior of that car is black.

>8^)
ER

 

more good info erik!
you need to start the "peloton automotive" web site!

 

Alright, alright......since this thread is being continued, I'll ask some more questions here.

Eric,

1) Did Mr. Selldorff buy chassis # 68 from Duncan Hamilton?

2) Is XP3 Mr. Murray's personal car?

3) Where is XP5 currently?

4) Chassis #075.......any info you can share on it?

5) QV500 says that XP1 was destroyed while testing in Namibia. Any idea how this occurred?

6) Which is the highest mileage F1 that you have personal knowledge of?

7) Is it true that BMW was forced to sign a contract saying that they would never ever manufacture the S70/2 engine for either themselves nor another manufacturer?

8) Do you have any pics of a LM being constructed or a road car in the process of having LM body components added? I would love to see some pics of LM body components off the car.

9) Chassis # 001.....who owns it?

10) GTR #13R.....where did it go after Maranello sold it?

If I have not stated this strongly enough before, let me just say it again. I sincerely appreciate your replies to my questions. I am not trying to be annoying or anything. I am just trying to increase my knowledge of a car I deeply love. Thank you again.

 

I KNEW IT!!!

1) Did Mr. Selldorff buy chassis # 68 from Duncan Hamilton?

No, but Duncan Hamilton did sell that car to Alfredo Brener who bought it apparently not knowing that federalizing in the USA it would be nearly impossible given that the car was built after 1995. A request for "Show or Display" approval was submitted for Brener to the DOT but later withdrawn since at the time it could not meet EPA approval. When he gave up he sold it to Selldorff, at least that's how I have heard the story.

2) Is XP3 Mr. Murray's personal car?

It certainly is. The car was given to Gordon as a gift following a refit and near complete update to full production spec. It still has some details that give away it's prototype status though.

Here's a wonderful photo of Gordon behind the wheel - it's one of my favorite shots in my entire collection actually.



When I met Gordon last year I showed him that photo and then had to remind him who took it.

3) Where is XP5 currently?

Last seen on display at the McLaren Technology Centre. Should still be there.

4) Chassis #075.......any info you can share on it?

Should still be with it's original owner - Aziz Ojjeh. It's been said that the car will never be sold, but I've heard that story before.

5) QV500 says that XP1 was destroyed while testing in Namibia. Any idea how this occurred?

This topic is covered in detail in "Driving Ambition" as it was a set back to the development process of the F1, and a major blow to the team. These are the last photos of the car, taken shortly before and after it was crashed in the Namibian desert while undergoing hot weather testing at the hands of a BMW test driver, Roman Scherer.



He's the goofy looking guy in the shorts. The story as it's told in the book is that he ran offline at approx 170mph when he took his eyes off the road to check some of the equipment in the car. The car then left the road and began flipping and sommersaulting across the desert floor, coming to rest on it's roof. At that point the passenger compartment was amazingly still intact and the driver was able to escape through the windscreen opening which had come loose during the crash.

It's doubtful the car would have been repairable after that sort of crash, but it really didn't matter as some oil began leaking out of the engine and caught fire on the exhaust manifold, completely destroying the first ever McLaren F1.

Fun Fact: Ron Dennis ordered all of the bits of the car packaged up and flown back to England where they were placed in a box and buried with a plaque outside the McLaren Cars headquarters. Seriously...

6) Which is the highest mileage F1 that you have personal knowledge of?

XP5 had more than 50,000 miles on it when it completed the 240mph record run in 1998 at VW's Ehra Lessien track. That's not surprising given that it was used by McLaren for final prototype testing, marketing/promo work and as a demonstration car for potential customers. I'm sure it's still in the lead in that department but couldn't tell you what the current mileage is.

7) Is it true that BMW was forced to sign a contract saying that they would never ever manufacture the S70/2 engine for either themselves nor another manufacturer?

Could be true - businesses make exclusive arrangements like that with suppliers all the time. I can tell you that a variation of the S70/3 GTR engine was used in BMW's own LeMans efforts in their two prototype racers - the 1998 V12 LM and 1999 V12 LMR. They have also built a pair of X5 LeMans vehicles that use the engine from the V12 LMR. (There's a cool video out there of Hans Stuck lapping the Nordschielf in one of them.) The agreement between McLaren and BMW may specify that they can't reuse the engine in another production vehicle - that would make a lot of sense.

8) Do you have any pics of a LM being constructed or a road car in the process of having LM body components added? I would love to see some pics of LM body components off the car.

Hmmm - I have a few photos of #018 undergoing it's refit that I can share. I have more showing #038 in pieces. I'll put them up this evening.

9) Chassis # 001.....who owns it?

Not sure - last report was that it lives in Europe with it's original owner, beyond that I don't know. The original TopGear episode on the F1 with Tiff Needel claimed #001 would be McLaren's own car, but that seems to be inaccurate based on what I have heard.

10) GTR #13R.....where did it go after Maranello sold it?

"Europe" is all that I have heard. Would be cool if Ralf Schumacher bought it. He and Naoki Hattori won the Japan GT Championship in 1996 in that car. He certainly has the money now.

If I have not stated this strongly enough before, let me just say it again. I sincerely appreciate your replies to my questions. I am not trying to be annoying or anything. I am just trying to increase my knowledge of a car I deeply love. Thank you again.

No sweat - I'm certainly not being bothered - heck, I love talking about the F1 (can you tell? ) and others seem to be enjoying it too. I'm not a regular 6speed partipant (too many other forums to keep track of ) but I'll keep checking back here and we can keep this going until the thread finally dies.

Would it scare you to know that about 85% of what I have posted has been from memory?

>8^)
ER

 

That is all I have to say

Thanks for all the answers by the way.

1) Where does this Mr. Aziz Ojjeh reside?

2) Judging from the pic you posted, XP1 was never painted? That is too awesome! Also the fact about the intact cockpit and "funeral" is very cool as well.

3) This "Driving Ambition" book that all F1 fans lust after.......was it "packaged" with the car or something? What makes it so super special other than the fact that it is "the official inside story of the McLaren F1" and that Ron Dennis and Gordon Murray were co-authors? Were only limited numbers produced? How much did it orginally sell for new (when it was released)? I see prices have been holding real well. Just like the F1.

4) The paperback "McLaren F1 GTR LM Sportscars Performance Portfolio" which was compiled by R.M. Clarke......is it any good?

5) How many McLaren factory authorized repair and bodywork centers are there in the United States? Locations if possible?

That is all..........for now. I eagerly wait for pics of 018 and 038.

Thank you.

 

Sure thing.

1) Where does this Mr. Aziz Ojjeh reside?

1313 Mockingbird Lane... Just kidding, that's the Munster's address.

I actually don't know for sure, but most likely somewhere in Europe. His brother is Mansour Ojjeh, who is 30% owner of the McLaren Group and one of the managing partners along with Ron Dennis who owns an equal share of the company. The remaining 40% is owned by Daimler-Chrysler of course.

http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/4435/lastone.htm

Ignore the quoted production figures there somewhat. The "100 cars" story leaves out the 5 F1 road car prototypes (XP1 through XP5) and the F1 LM prototype (XP1 LM). I guess some people think 100 sounds nicer than 106 - accuracy be damned!

2) Judging from the pic you posted, XP1 was never painted? That is too awesome! Also the fact about the intact cockpit and "funeral" is very cool as well.

You are correct - XP1 was the only F1 never painted. Here's some more shots showing off it's naked skin - all clickable:



XP2 was never really painted either until just before it's crash test at MIRA. You'll see below that they painted it in a strange hue of turquoise/blue, likely to help the cameras that record the crash. Here's a couple of photos, one an early shot of XP2 and XP3 and the rest come from the crash test - not sure which is more color accurate:



Right-click and "Save Target As..." here to watch it crash.

They likely would not have done an unpainted car for a customer like Pagani has done given the fact that there would be seams where different pieces of the bodywork came together in strange places on the car.

<To be continued - I reached the limit on images per post here.>

>8^)
ER

 

3) This "Driving Ambition" book that all F1 fans lust after.......was it "packaged" with the car or something? What makes it so super special other than the fact that it is "the official inside story of the McLaren F1" and that Ron Dennis and Gordon Murray were co-authors? Were only limited numbers produced? How much did it orginally sell for new (when it was released)? I see prices have been holding real well. Just like the F1.

There are several versions of "Driving Ambition" actually.

The retail copy (which I have 4 of - long story) originally sold for £40.00 (or around $60 at the time of release in 1999). I'm not sure how many copies were originally printed, but for a while even the retail copy was increasing in value quite a bit as they seemed to be in limited supply. A couple of years later the publisher Virgin Books reprinted DA with a cover price in the USA of $69.95, but demand must have been low as since then prices have fallen to as low as $40, but now seem to be steadily climbing again.

They also printed a very special leather bound edition in a few varieties. These have an additional ~130 pages over the retail copy which alone would be worth the additional price. One was called the Owner's Edition, another the Limited Edition, and finally just recently to mark the anniversary of the 1995 24 Hours of LeMans victory they released a LeMans Commemorative Edition. It seems that the Limited and LeMans versions are still available. Rather than explain in detail here what those include I will simply refer you to the link on their site:

http://193.119.140.220/mclarencars/c...kIntroPage.htm

Unfortunately I haven't purchased one of these finer copies yet and I'm beginning to regret it. There's even a Limited Edition version listed on Ebay right now (first one I have seen there) that has been taunting me this week:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=4643258452

Somebody should buy it so I don't have too!

As for why the book is so great, well... it tells the entire story of the F1's development, has images of Gordon's hand written notes and memos through the process, shows the earliest designs for the car, and has some of the most impressive McLaren F1 images you will ever see from cover to cover. It's as close as any of us will get to actually being there. There are sections on the GTRs, the LM, and the GT. If that's not enough, the retail version also includes a poster of the last road car with the entire chassis history and most of the GTRs race history outlined on the reverse.

I think the book is truly a "must have" for any automotive enthusiast.

4) The paperback "McLaren F1 GTR LM Sportscars Performance Portfolio" which was compiled by R.M. Clarke......is it any good?

That book is essentially a compilation of magazine articles on the F1 from various publications. It's a nice supplement to "Driving Ambition", and so is the AutoCar book titled "McLaren's Road Car" which they included as a free insert one week back in 1994. You can find copies of that (also paperback) on Ebay from time to time. It could be desrcibed as a mini-Driving Ambition, but was printed 5 years earlier and lacks any mention of the LMs or GTRs of course.

That is all..........for now. I eagerly wait for pics of 018 and 038.

Wait no more...

In my mind this afternoon these images were larger then what I found on my hard drive when I got home. I tried to increase their size without destroying the image quality.



Rather than post the #038 shots given the image-per-post limitations here, I will just link to them. Unfortunately I thought there were more of the car in pieces, but the one front shot is cool to see.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=48633

I also remembered there were one or two shots of cars in pieces in this gallery of photos from tvrfreak's factory visit. Worst case, this is a great set of photos to look at. The striking blue colored car wearing the High Downforce Kit is #011. You'll also see a couple of photos of #08R hiding in the corner in it's WEST livery prior to it's Papaya Orange respray.

http://www.tvrfreak.com/Albums/Trips...en/page_01.htm

Another great set of photos from a factory visit can be found here, along with a neat story to boot. No shots of cars in pieces really. The black car with the High Downforce Kit fitted is actually that striking blue colored car from the last set of shots prior to being repainted.

http://www.centralcoastweb.com/nsxb/...n/mclaren.html

Last but not least, here are two photos showing chassis #011 in the midst of that refit/respray:

http://image63.webshots.com/163/7/60...7GNGgNj_fs.jpg

http://image63.webshots.com/63/6/23/...7XDnUxM_fs.jpg

You may need to refresh the page when you open those links in order to get the images to actually appear. Webshots is strange like that.

5) How many McLaren factory authorized repair and bodywork centers are there in the United States? Locations if possible?

There are only two McLaren Service Centers in the USA. Both are located at BMW's Ports of Entry/Vehicle Prep Centers on the East any West coasts where foreign made BMWs enter the country and the American made ones leave. The facility in California is only about 30 minutes away from me in Port Hueneme/Oxnard, CA. The one in New Jersey is located in Jersey City. Neither place is open to the public unfortunately, and even when tours have been given to BMW enthusiast groups, the area where any F1s are stored or serviced has been off limits. Typically these centers are only for doing basic servicing of F1s and installing some upgrades as far as I am aware. For more intensive work a trip to the factory in Woking is required.

>8^)
ER

 

Thanks for all the info Peloton, its been an education !

 

Thanks for all the info Gordon. I had no idea of who your were...now I do. Cheers !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Murray

 

Glad you enjoyed it. Be sure to thank Phoenix too, as we never would have made it this far without him.

Luckily for everyone reading along he's glazed over some of the more traditional F1-related questions and really put my knowledge to the test. It's been fun though.

>8^)
ER

 

Thank you very much Eric.

1) Chassis # 11.....before it was painted that blue color, was it wearing it's original Carbon paint?

2) Chassis # 11's paint in those photos......is that Cobalt Blue?

3) This gentleman the owner?



4) Which one is your favorite F1?

5) Did McLaren ever run any of the F1's on a timed lap of the Nordschliefe?

6) Is "Driving Ambition" still being produced? The only ones I've seen are on Amazon and they're used with prices ranging from $100 to $500.

7) Do you have any pics of chassis # 08 in it's original livery? I'm quite partial to Cobalt Blue.

8) How did the current owner of #068 make it "street legal"?

Thank you!

 

You're welcome again.

1) Chassis # 11.....before it was painted that blue color, was it wearing it's original Carbon paint?

I believe so, but obviously the High Downforce Kit had been added at some other point in it's life during another refit as those pieces were just a twinkle in Gordon's eyes when this car was built in 1994.

2) Chassis # 11's paint in those photos......is that Cobalt Blue?

When the car was sold through Christie's Auction in 2004 the color was listed simply as "Metallic Blue". The story behind the color was that it was a custom mix designed to match the face of a watch. I believe that watch was a Tag Heuer Kirium with the blue dial as they are an almost exact match.

3) This gentleman the owner?

Nope, that's "tvrfreak". The owner of this car kept it in storage at the McLaren factory most of the time.

4) Which one is your favorite F1?

I don't really have a single favorite. I love #011, except for the interior - not my choice of colors in there. I'd go with something more gray/black/blue accents. I like XP4 quite a bit, both because of it's looks and also the historical importance. I'd very much like to own that car, but who wouldn't? I also like chassis #051, a green F1 road car that now resides in Japan. It one F1 I would take without any changes. I liked GTR #16R a lot before it was given the LM-look respray. I liked the original look of chassis #018 quite a bit. There's one silver road car with the HDF Kit fitted and a unique set of headlights (believed to be #059) I think also looks great. It looks similar to the car that was in the Martin Brundle's Supercars movie (Paul Stewart's chassis #023), but the thing about the car in that movie is it still wears the standard 17" road car wheel - I prefer the 5-spoke 18's with the HDF Kit.

5) Did McLaren ever run any of the F1's on a timed lap of the Nordschliefe?

There is no published lap time for a McLaren on the 'Ring. There was an AutoCar article where they took XP5 to the 'Ring, and they list the car's speed at the different corners, but no official time. Someone did some fancy math and came up with a lap time based on those speeds, but I would have to dig to find it and it was only a guesstimate.

6) Is "Driving Ambition" still being produced? The only ones I've seen are on Amazon and they're used with prices ranging from $100 to $500.

I don't think Virgin Books are actively printing new copies right now. Prices on the retail version tend to range from $50-$100 based on what I have seen online. Some online book sellers including Amazon sell them if you don't want to play games with Ebay.

7) Do you have any pics of chassis # 08 in it's original livery? I'm quite partial to Cobalt Blue.

None that I can positively ID as #008 - sorry.

8) How did the current owner of #068 make it "street legal"?

Well the current owner of #068 bought the car already converted. It was Mr Selldorff who had paid to have the EPA work done. A lot of the changes wouldn't be immediately visible, and I certainly wasn't provided with an itemized list, but one thing that was noticeably different in the engine compartment is that an air pump has been installed that feeds fresh air to the catalysts. You can see the black device and the tubing that runs from it to the catalysts in this horribly exposed photo I took:



>8^)
ER