GT3/GT2 Performance and Track Discussion on the Porsche GT3 and GT2

BMW CCA at Pocono North with the GT3

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Old 04-15-2007 | 12:13 PM
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BMW CCA at Pocono North with the GT3

Yesterday was the first Driver's Education event of the 2007 season for the Metro NY BMW CCA. I went up with the GT3 and my wife in the F430.




It's been a long time since I've been on the track. An even longer since I've been on a track in a 911. The weather was terrifingly cold. The sky was omniously grey. There was water on the racing surface. It was less than optimal conditions for "Flying the Arrow Backwards" as my friend Adam reminded me: That's basically what driving a 911 is. Thankfully, several friends from the "olden days before the great war", whom I used to drive with regularly, were on hand to make this all the more fun.


After a trepidatious first session, I was reminded of all the things that make a 911 special on a track. Those things are only amplified in the GT3. Every input on that car connects you with the road. Every bit of feedback from every percievable force acting on the car is communicated back to the driver. All systems working in concert -- beginning with that feedback -- to deliver controls that enable you to get what you need out of the car. The only real variable being how fast you can process that input and how quickly you can react with your movements. Sure, the suspension setup, power of the motor, response of the steering and all the things we tinker with all day and all night were wonderful, but without that sensory input coupled with that quirky weight balance you'd just be racing a car...

Of course, not everything in the first session went swimmingly. I was reminded of all the reasons why I need to NOT have sequential shift cars. I was not smooth. Not by a long shot. Once upon a time, I could drive a mid-1970s "Frankenstein" 911 track car (You know the kind where every lock had a different key?) very smoothly. Today in the GT3, I was not as good as I once was, so that VERY quickly became my goal for the day.

I think I did a relatively good job of hitting that goal. Hitting that transition from the "bowl" into the "infield" and carrying more and more speed every time without upsetting the suspension... Eliminating some of the quick brake taps on the infield while coming through some of the slightly more "vague" turns...

But I did spin the car. Twice. Both times in the same spot.


In the left hander in the infield, where there is a LOT of run off room, I was playing with turn in points. Later apexing. Earlier apexing. More power sooner. Less power later. In the second session, I took it a little bit too hot for the later apex I was looking for and spun right off into the grass anout a half car length in.

In the F430 or Gallardo or RS4 or M3 I could have corrected that. This was a sharp reminder that I'm back in 911 country.

No big deal and back on the road for the third session.

During the third session, things were going well. Really well. Things felt good. According to the Traqmate, I was turning consistent lap times between 1:03 and 1:05 (Still room for improvement... but not today.) I got a late point by, took it in an odd spot well off the suggested "line", slowed down TREMENDOUSLY and I still lost the car after correcting twice. Again, sliding gently off the track into the grass.

My speed was very slow. Sure we were off line, but we burned off a ton of speed coming in to the turn (Thanks, PCCB), it should not have mattered that dramatically. Plus, I had corrected after the initial slip. Got the car back under control, got back under power and lost the back end agin... twice. Then finally giving up the ghost and sliding into the grass.

We got back into the garages. The car was fine save for some grass caught up in the wheel well. (Sorry, Eddie)

After a review with the instructor and chief instrictor, they cleared me to return to the track but, I was a bit nervous to go out again. I called it a day. Tempting the cold, fresh 911 familiarity, and the 'Friday the 13th' date I figured I'd cut my losses and drive home safely under my own power.

I was getting kind of bummed. Sure, it was my first time back in a 911. Sure, the GT3 had me driving with my old friends and keeping up with them. Sure, the car was clearly letting me drive above my abilities... but I was very frustrated at not learnign from my previous mistake.

Thankfully, the classroom instructor came by a bit later. Asked what happened. We had a brief talk. He was several cars behind me and saw the whole thing. He asked if I saw a debris flag. I said "No". He said neither did he... but he noticed an older E30 M3 dropping some fuel on the track through that turn one lap earlier.

So while there's not conclusive evidence that says, "being offline led to driving through some debris that caused a loss of traction" it still made me feel like less of a fool.


More pics are available on my Flickr

So, in conclusion: Everyone should buy a GT3.
 
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Old 04-15-2007 | 03:23 PM
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awesome pics ... both of your cars look awesome on the track.
 
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Old 04-15-2007 | 06:16 PM
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Emil, Mark never got by me. I won't give him a point by. That's the easy way. Honestly, what I do is line up just behind him, then it takes him the whole session to catch me. I come out looking like a winner. But we all know the truth. Thanks for putting me in your avatar.
Thom
 
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Old 04-15-2007 | 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 5speed
Thanks for putting me in your avatar.
That's why I used that picture!
 
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Old 04-15-2007 | 07:22 PM
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997 Gt3

I will be tracking my GT3 next month. I'd like to know what temps you were running in the Pilot sport cups? What settings were your sway bar on?
Thanks
 
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Old 04-15-2007 | 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sasportas
I'd like to know what temps you were running in the Pilot sport cups?
Wasn't keeping track of temperature. Ran consistent pressure, though.

Originally Posted by sasportas
What settings were your sway bar on?
What settings?
 
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Old 04-16-2007 | 10:26 AM
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Emil, good to meet you on Friday. I was in the white E36 M3 in the same group and we did a handful of laps nose-to-tail. Thanks for bringing two of your beautiful collection out to play. Hope to see you at another event in the future.
 
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Old 04-16-2007 | 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by emilgh
Wasn't keeping track of temperature. Ran consistent pressure, though.
Thats a strong part of why you were spinning, these tires build up a lot of heat and they need to be dropped in pressure and monitored between sessions. Give it some thought on your next event.
 
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Old 04-16-2007 | 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JASCLASS
Thats a strong part of why you were spinning, these tires build up a lot of heat and they need to be dropped in pressure and monitored between sessions. Give it some thought on your next event.
Thanks, Justin. I was running very consistent pressure despite the cold. Surprisingly, the on-board TPMS in the 997 GT3 was RIGHT ON with the analog "old skool" gauge I've used for years. Tires were at optimal pressure after 4 "warm-up" laps and remained within 1 psi for the session. In between run groups, I monitored pressure (not temperature) pretty closely and was very consistent throughout the day. Frankly, it was too cold to bust out the pyrometer and take/log readings.

To your point, though, I think that there were several factors that contributed to my lack luster driving:

1) Me. I'm still getting "back in the saddle" of the 911...

2) Brutal cold. Which made me much less productive between run groups for monitoring conditions.

3) Alignment. I should have kicked those back corners in a tad from the stock configuration (Right, Thom?)
 
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Old 04-16-2007 | 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by J Clark
Emil, good to meet you on Friday. I was in the white E36 M3 in the same group and we did a handful of laps nose-to-tail. Thanks for bringing two of your beautiful collection out to play. Hope to see you at another event in the future.
Is this you?


Nice driving... and a nice M3!
 
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Old 04-16-2007 | 01:04 PM
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3) Alignment. I should have kicked those back corners in a tad from the stock configuration (Right, Thom?)[/QUOTE]
Emil, When you come in next time we can set up the camber and toe a little more agressive now that the car has settled in. Changing sway bar settings will also improve your driving. Driving behind you just before your second spin, I really thought you would save it. Once you lifted instead of lightly staying in the throttle, it was all history. All in all, under those conditions, I think you did a great job. The GT3 calls for a lot more throttle steer control than you older 911 did. Cold track temps, lots of torque with stiff springs / shocks, then throw in a little "red mist", your on the edge.
 

Last edited by 5speed; 04-16-2007 at 01:18 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-16-2007 | 05:51 PM
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hey emilgh, two spin outs,glad you didn't hit anything. yea that first turn off the nascar track carries alot of speed. what happened to the powercoat wheeles? i did pocono last week with nnpca. where are you running next mth. any openings.we got to hook up somewhere.
 
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Old 04-16-2007 | 06:08 PM
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IMHO...its the degree of throttle steering and the grip afforded by the throttle that make the 911 so hard to get used to or back into but AMAZING once harnessed...

Im going to Pocono in a bit too...even though its a short course...it should be fun...haha
 
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Old 04-16-2007 | 07:19 PM
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sechsgang, I agree, throttle steer is what makes a 911 so much fun to drive. That's my point about staying in the throttle to try and drift it thru the corner.
 
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Old 04-16-2007 | 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by emilgh
Is this you?


Nice driving... and a nice M3!
Yep, that's me. Thanks! Any other track days booked in the future? Patroon and/or NY Chapter BMWCCA will be at Lime Rock on 5/5 and WGI on 6/18-19 and would love to have you and your wife again.
Take care,
 


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