Just how much better of a performer is the 997 GT3 over the 996 GT3?
#46
05-11-2007, 07:16 AM
Formula, heading up to college station to got to TWS. I'll go again the following Friday for some open lapping.
By the time summer is over, I'll probably take up residence here (only 25 miles from my house!
)
http://www.harrishillroad.com/track.php
By the time summer is over, I'll probably take up residence here (only 25 miles from my house!
)http://www.harrishillroad.com/track.php
#47
05-11-2007, 09:02 AM
I've attempted to clarify this point, apparently not to well, the 996 GT3 is one of my favorite Porsches of all time. I've owned two and race a 996 Cup Car. Don't confuse the inferior suspension of the 996 GT3 compared to the 997 GT3 as "raw".
If you want raw, by a 964 Cup Car or my 993 RS. Both "feel more raw" than the 996 GT3. It's all relative but what you're feeling with the seat of your pants don't equate to what people deem as "raw". I guess in the sense of Bill Clinton, it depends on what raw is to each particular person. I come from a racer's perspective with seat time in all.
Formula 1, let a pro driver that instructs at your local track take both cars for hot laps with you and get their feedback. Again, you should be faster in a 997 based on hp alone even if you discount the "raw" feel.
At the end of the day the 996 GT3 is a great car, and would be legendary if not for the 997 GT3, which is a step up. Both are incredible and we are all lucky to get to play around with them.
If you want raw, by a 964 Cup Car or my 993 RS. Both "feel more raw" than the 996 GT3. It's all relative but what you're feeling with the seat of your pants don't equate to what people deem as "raw". I guess in the sense of Bill Clinton, it depends on what raw is to each particular person. I come from a racer's perspective with seat time in all.
Formula 1, let a pro driver that instructs at your local track take both cars for hot laps with you and get their feedback. Again, you should be faster in a 997 based on hp alone even if you discount the "raw" feel.
At the end of the day the 996 GT3 is a great car, and would be legendary if not for the 997 GT3, which is a step up. Both are incredible and we are all lucky to get to play around with them.
#48
05-12-2007, 10:56 PM
Originally Posted by DHinkle
Formula 1, let a pro driver that instructs at your local track take both cars for hot laps with you and get their feedback. Again, you should be faster in a 997 based on hp alone even if you discount the "raw" feel.
To clarify, what may be perceived as "raw" and like you said, ask 5 people what raw is and you'll get 10 answers, but the streetability of 997 GT3 is what I'm talking about.
One example is the talk of understeer experienced with the 997 GT3 and 997 RS. I did not experience understeer on the track I was at, but there has been long discussions on Rennlist about the new GT3 and RS having big time understeer in slow corners where a 996 GT3 will pull a 5 car length distance on a 997 GT3 RS in the same corner.
Several different suspension and alignment settings are being tried to get a grip of what and how it's happening, but speculation is that Porsche has engineered said understeer and it may be the result of the LSD and TC, etc. etc.
#49
05-13-2007, 07:39 AM
Go check the threads now. One of the three licked the problem with a proper alignment. Just like with the 996, alignment on these cars is *critical*. So let's not get so worked up on the issue. My 996 GT3 handled like crap out of the box, worse than the 997 in fact. But, people today have alignment and car setup data from years and many hours of experienced hands setting up 996 GT3s. But very little data are available for the 997.
And, blaming understeer on TC and LSD? Huh? Sounds like you are on a witchunt. Less lockup means *less* understeer, not more. And, the three experienced guys who were fighting push at Calaboogie ran with TC off.
And, blaming understeer on TC and LSD? Huh? Sounds like you are on a witchunt. Less lockup means *less* understeer, not more. And, the three experienced guys who were fighting push at Calaboogie ran with TC off.
#51
05-14-2007, 07:25 AM
Check here for a track alignment. http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...5&page=1&pp=15
-2.7 to -3.0 up front, 0 toe to slight toe out front. Rear, -2.0 and 30 minutes toe in total.
For the street, why would you deviate from factory specs? You won't feel the difference on the street, you lose some steering feel with high front camber, your traction on straight line acceleration and your tire wear are compromised.
-2.7 to -3.0 up front, 0 toe to slight toe out front. Rear, -2.0 and 30 minutes toe in total.
For the street, why would you deviate from factory specs? You won't feel the difference on the street, you lose some steering feel with high front camber, your traction on straight line acceleration and your tire wear are compromised.
#52
05-14-2007, 08:27 AM
Originally Posted by toddbee
Anyone have good settings for a street alignment for a 997gt3? Are the factory specs in the book the best setup? With all the talk about understeer I wanted to check before i have mine setup.
Thanks
Thanks
#53
05-14-2007, 08:56 AM
Good discussion. I can't wait to get mine.
Frayed, How long is that track in Austin. I hope to meet you at TWS someday. I live east of Dallas so I usually do - MSR, and TWS. Ofcourse there are 2 more tracks being built in the Dallas area as we speak. YEAH!!!
Frayed, How long is that track in Austin. I hope to meet you at TWS someday. I live east of Dallas so I usually do - MSR, and TWS. Ofcourse there are 2 more tracks being built in the Dallas area as we speak. YEAH!!!
#54
05-14-2007, 10:06 AM
Thanks alot guys. I was going to have the factory alignment checked as I have heard that some cars come out of alignment from factory. I just wanted to make sure the factory setting are the best place to start.
thanks
thanks
#55
05-14-2007, 12:32 PM
Ritesh,
Not sure exactly but think right at 2 miles.
Heading to TWS this weekend and the following weekend. When the new track opens in August/Sept I probably won't get up to TWS as much. But, will still have to go as its the only 'big' track around here.
Not sure exactly but think right at 2 miles.
Heading to TWS this weekend and the following weekend. When the new track opens in August/Sept I probably won't get up to TWS as much. But, will still have to go as its the only 'big' track around here.
#56
05-18-2007, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by rr4
Don't listen to the mags.
Walter Rorl got a 7:42 on the RS on a public day on a damp course, having to pass 5 cars in the process. On the same day, he timed himself in the Carrera GT at 7:39, his best time in a GT on a closed track is 7:32.
I'm not trying to tell you that these times should take precedence over any magazine times, but you should consider all information when making a decision.
Secondly, I have an RS and I can tell you the new car is better than the 996GT3. It is far stabler. Upon heavy acceleration and heavy braking, particularly in turns, the 996GT3 is no where near as stable.
What you have to keep in mind when you look at a 996GT3 is that it is based on a 996, a car that was under serious, serious budget contraints. Remember in the late 90's when this car was designed, Porsche was almost broke. The 996GT3 is a fantastic car, but it's based on a car that was a saviour car to Porsche. I loved my 996GT3, but the 997GT3/RS is the better car, hands down.
In the same breath you can't go wrong with a 996GT3. But anyone who says the 996GT3 is just as good - or better - hasn't driven both.
Walter Rorl got a 7:42 on the RS on a public day on a damp course, having to pass 5 cars in the process. On the same day, he timed himself in the Carrera GT at 7:39, his best time in a GT on a closed track is 7:32.
I'm not trying to tell you that these times should take precedence over any magazine times, but you should consider all information when making a decision.
Secondly, I have an RS and I can tell you the new car is better than the 996GT3. It is far stabler. Upon heavy acceleration and heavy braking, particularly in turns, the 996GT3 is no where near as stable.
What you have to keep in mind when you look at a 996GT3 is that it is based on a 996, a car that was under serious, serious budget contraints. Remember in the late 90's when this car was designed, Porsche was almost broke. The 996GT3 is a fantastic car, but it's based on a car that was a saviour car to Porsche. I loved my 996GT3, but the 997GT3/RS is the better car, hands down.
In the same breath you can't go wrong with a 996GT3. But anyone who says the 996GT3 is just as good - or better - hasn't driven both.
#57
05-18-2007, 07:46 PM
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How good are the factory setups? I was going to head down and see Arling at Lucent but may wait abit if the cars are coming from the factories correct.
I wont have a chance to take mine to the track till later this summer.
I wont have a chance to take mine to the track till later this summer.
#58
05-18-2007, 08:57 PM
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Location: Minneapolis, Mn
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Originally Posted by OldGuy
How good are the factory setups? I was going to head down and see Arling at Lucent but may wait abit if the cars are coming from the factories correct.
I wont have a chance to take mine to the track till later this summer.
I wont have a chance to take mine to the track till later this summer.
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