AWE Tuning GT3 exhaust sneak-peek
#16
Originally Posted by mowblowgo
I didn't catch the video were the cup car beat the RS by 5 seconds, but 5 seconds would be anything but mere. On a typical 2 mile circuit, the ALMS GT2 Class Porsche's will run about 5 seconds faster than a stock GT3 cup car. These two cars are $200,000 apart in base cost. Most race teams will spend tens of thousands of dollars to gain even a quarter of a second.
http://www.trackpedia.com/forums/showthread.php?p=26250
Last edited by 9Eleven; 06-30-2007 at 07:45 PM.
#17
Remember, Porsche has to design and manufacture their parts to accomodate all types of conditions and markets. AWE doesn't. They specialize for the "racing" market where they are not regulated by such Federalization. If they can show proof that their design does create gains, then I'm in line for one. Hopefully, they will provide a before and after dyno.
#18
Todd's response shows that he is confident and a straight shooter. I am very impressed. I look forward to seeing the bench and real world test numbers.
I also appreciate the non-confrontational manner that 9Eleven posted. (Makes for an enjoyable topic to follow!)
Regarding the 5th Gear - Tiff Needle GT3RS vs. GT# Cup Car.
They stated that both cars ran around the same money, but that the gearing of the Cup car was more suited to the track, Additionally - The Cup Car was running slicks.
I would enjoy seeing Tiff (He is a joy to watch!) flog a standard 997 GT3, the RS, and the Cup with identical tires.
Back on topic, specialists will always be able to build a better mousetrap, but can they stand the test of time? And what are the gaurantee's with regards to the original warranty and the aftermarket part warranty.
These are the main considerations for any new car IMHO.
Good luck with the development Todd.
Brian
I also appreciate the non-confrontational manner that 9Eleven posted. (Makes for an enjoyable topic to follow!)
Regarding the 5th Gear - Tiff Needle GT3RS vs. GT# Cup Car.
They stated that both cars ran around the same money, but that the gearing of the Cup car was more suited to the track, Additionally - The Cup Car was running slicks.
I would enjoy seeing Tiff (He is a joy to watch!) flog a standard 997 GT3, the RS, and the Cup with identical tires.
Back on topic, specialists will always be able to build a better mousetrap, but can they stand the test of time? And what are the gaurantee's with regards to the original warranty and the aftermarket part warranty.
These are the main considerations for any new car IMHO.
Good luck with the development Todd.
Brian
#19
The concept of Porsche having to set a design standard that is some level of compromise, for a street registerable, DOT appproved vehicle makes complete sense here also. Not being bound by the same sound level, longevity, fuel, and other factors gives the aftermarket tuner an area to capalitize on. That being said, Porsche has apparently used resonance and sound pressure wave dynamics to scavenge the exhaust, so any menanigful improvement must be systemic, or loose the gains that Porsche has developed into the stock system. What is the projected weitght savings ?
#21
Originally Posted by P97
If they can show proof that their design does create gains, then I'm in line for one. Hopefully, they will provide a before and after dyno.
Also a note about dyno testing the GT3: like most other late model Porsches, it takes a careful hand on the dyno to obtain meaningful results. It is very easy to undercool/overheat the GT3 and cause it to jump to a more conservative timing map, regardless if stock or modified. Further, ECU adaptation to mods takes several dyno pulls to be completed.
Thus, to obtain meaningful results, you must do literally a few dozen pulls stock and modified, while also carefully cooling the engine.
#22
Originally Posted by Senna
Todd's response shows that he is confident and a straight shooter. I am very impressed. I look forward to seeing the bench and real world test numbers.
...
Good luck with the development Todd.
Brian
...
Good luck with the development Todd.
Brian
Thanks for the kind words. Those are some hot looking tool chests you got there!
#23
Originally Posted by bobk
What is the projected weitght savings ?
Here is the breakdown:
Stock primary muffler 22lbs each (44lbs total)
Stock secondary muffler and tips 20lbs
Stock headers and cats 11.25lbs each (22.5lbs total)
Stock exhaust system 86.5lbs total
AWE mufflers and tips 14lbs each (28lbs total)
AWE cat section 9lbs each (18lbs total)
AWE header 8.5lbs each (17lbs total)
AWE exhaust system 63lbs total
23.5lbs less than stock
#25
Originally Posted by Crea
how about making it in titanium to save more weight?
Todd, I am sure you did not mean to miss the part of the question about also displaying the test cars stock hp dyno numbers too?
#26
Originally Posted by GoSpeedGo
I’m in on spending more for a lighter titanium system as well. However, there could no performance losses because of resonance tuning issues between the two different metals.
Todd, I am sure you did not mean to miss the part of the question about also displaying the test cars stock hp dyno numbers too?
Todd, I am sure you did not mean to miss the part of the question about also displaying the test cars stock hp dyno numbers too?
Titanium is not as dense a metal as stainless steel, and hence it has dramatic impact on exhaust tone. It tends to have a higher pitched, metallic sound to it due to the way it reacts to sound waves.
Given that sound is as much a priority on users lists of exhaust qualities as power, we do not want to risk alienating a large part of the exhaust buying public because of an objectionable exhaust note. If it sounds like crap, the far majority of people won't care if it saves a few lbs (GT3 crowd not exempt here).
Plus, we are not convinced of Ti's ability to withstand track usage. Either there is a general lack of ability out there to properly construct Titanium race exhausts, or there is a propensity for Titanium welds to crack. No matter what the cause may be, we have seen a lot of failed Titanium welds out there and we have not seen enough market demand to start experimenting on our own with this unforgiving material. The last thing we want to do is harm our reputation with an unreliable system design.
Regarding the dyno tests: we will of course include an average stock exhaust system baseline for comparison.
#27
Originally Posted by Todd/AWE
To be honest, we do not have a lot of experience with Ti, nor do we plan on gaining any.
Titanium is not as dense a metal as stainless steel, and hence it has dramatic impact on exhaust tone. It tends to have a higher pitched, metallic sound to it due to the way it reacts to sound waves.
Given that sound is as much a priority on users lists of exhaust qualities as power, we do not want to risk alienating a large part of the exhaust buying public because of an objectionable exhaust note. If it sounds like crap, the far majority of people won't care if it saves a few lbs (GT3 crowd not exempt here).
Plus, we are not convinced of Ti's ability to withstand track usage. Either there is a general lack of ability out there to properly construct Titanium race exhausts, or there is a propensity for Titanium welds to crack. No matter what the cause may be, we have seen a lot of failed Titanium welds out there and we have not seen enough market demand to start experimenting on our own with this unforgiving material. The last thing we want to do is harm our reputation with an unreliable system design.
Regarding the dyno tests: we will of course include an average stock exhaust system baseline for comparison.
Titanium is not as dense a metal as stainless steel, and hence it has dramatic impact on exhaust tone. It tends to have a higher pitched, metallic sound to it due to the way it reacts to sound waves.
Given that sound is as much a priority on users lists of exhaust qualities as power, we do not want to risk alienating a large part of the exhaust buying public because of an objectionable exhaust note. If it sounds like crap, the far majority of people won't care if it saves a few lbs (GT3 crowd not exempt here).
Plus, we are not convinced of Ti's ability to withstand track usage. Either there is a general lack of ability out there to properly construct Titanium race exhausts, or there is a propensity for Titanium welds to crack. No matter what the cause may be, we have seen a lot of failed Titanium welds out there and we have not seen enough market demand to start experimenting on our own with this unforgiving material. The last thing we want to do is harm our reputation with an unreliable system design.
Regarding the dyno tests: we will of course include an average stock exhaust system baseline for comparison.
Todd,
I agree with your concerns on noise and certainly for track purposes I have yet to see very few if any Ti exhaust stand up, at least for the cars I have owned. Track reliability is a concern especially since I am confidant that your company will produce a product that will enhance the performance of the GT3/RS. With that being said, has your company looked at using Inconel, at least for the headers?
I personally am really looking forward to hear more in the coming weeks.
#28
Originally Posted by Todd/AWE
Brian,
Thanks for the kind words. Those are some hot looking tool chests you got there!
Thanks for the kind words. Those are some hot looking tool chests you got there!
![Big Grin](https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
67 bays - 22' long (As Dual Bays) Completely custom Technician Benches.
Cheers.
#29
Originally Posted by GoSpeedGo
Todd,
I agree with your concerns on noise and certainly for track purposes I have yet to see very few if any Ti exhaust stand up, at least for the cars I have owned. Track reliability is a concern especially since I am confidant that your company will produce a product that will enhance the performance of the GT3/RS. With that being said, has your company looked at using Inconel, at least for the headers?
I personally am really looking forward to hear more in the coming weeks.
I agree with your concerns on noise and certainly for track purposes I have yet to see very few if any Ti exhaust stand up, at least for the cars I have owned. Track reliability is a concern especially since I am confidant that your company will produce a product that will enhance the performance of the GT3/RS. With that being said, has your company looked at using Inconel, at least for the headers?
I personally am really looking forward to hear more in the coming weeks.
(I use the "RSR/Daytona Cup Car header" term loosely, as there is actually some minor geometry differences between the two, but their overall design is very, very similar)
Our reasoning is that while inconel has superior heat resistance properties, and may be appropriate for sustained high speed use during an endurance race, it is for all intents and purposes overkill for a double duty street car like the 997 GT3. Further, Inconel tubing would increase the kit price by at least 25% (for reference the RSR/Daytona Cup headers are $12k per set!).
However, we did see the need to use 321 stainless for the header primaries and collectors due to the regularly seen exhaust temps on this high revving engine.
#30
More sneak peeks:
![](http://awe-tuning.com/media/products/awe/997_gt3/AWE_GT3_4.jpg)
![](http://awe-tuning.com/media/products/awe/997_gt3/AWE_GT3_3.jpg)
![](http://awe-tuning.com/media/products/awe/997_gt3/AWE_GT3_2.jpg)
![](http://awe-tuning.com/media/products/awe/997_gt3/AWE_GT3_1.jpg)
This first production system is scheduled for track testing at Watkins Glen over the next two days. We will do a post operational check when the car returns, and if everything meets our standards, we will do a formal public release.
Any questions, let me know!
![](http://awe-tuning.com/media/products/awe/997_gt3/AWE_GT3_4.jpg)
![](http://awe-tuning.com/media/products/awe/997_gt3/AWE_GT3_3.jpg)
![](http://awe-tuning.com/media/products/awe/997_gt3/AWE_GT3_2.jpg)
![](http://awe-tuning.com/media/products/awe/997_gt3/AWE_GT3_1.jpg)
This first production system is scheduled for track testing at Watkins Glen over the next two days. We will do a post operational check when the car returns, and if everything meets our standards, we will do a formal public release.
Any questions, let me know!