Another RS for Sale thread closed?
#16
07-10-2007, 10:30 AM
In the end, we are to blame. If we didn't support these crooks buy paying over MSRP, they wouldn't be selling for over MSRP. Car dealers are like lawyers and politicians. They may start out with strong morals, but they quickly succumb to the dark side.
#18
07-10-2007, 10:36 AM
Originally Posted by oak
yeah, it's always the customers fault.
Last edited by PTarga; 07-10-2007 at 10:38 AM.
#19
07-10-2007, 10:39 AM
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In the end, we are to blame. If we didn't support these crooks buy paying over MSRP, they wouldn't be selling for over MSRP. Car dealers are like lawyers and politicians. They may start out with strong morals, but they quickly succumb to the dark side.
HOW did that happen?
#20
07-10-2007, 10:44 AM
Originally Posted by OldGuy
Its not us -its the guys with so much money they dont care. Its not enthusiast. Indeed its the enthusiasts Battle to get the car he wants that we are debating. These guys that drove the market up (if not the dealers) will move on to the next Ferrari F490 or what ever next year and discard these cars when the luster wears off. Like I said whats fishy about this it there are dealers all over the country with these sitting on their lots for $180K
HOW did that happen?
HOW did that happen?
#21
07-10-2007, 10:52 AM
Originally Posted by OldGuy
Its not us -its the guys with so much money they dont care. Its not enthusiast. Indeed its the ethusiasts Battle to get the car he wants that we are debating. These guys that drove the market up (if not the dealers) will move on to the next Ferrari F490 or what ever next year and discard these cars when the luster wears off. Like I said whats fishy about this it there are dealers all over the country with these sitting on their lots for $180K
HOW did that happen?
HOW did that happen?
I do agree they absolutely should uphold the contract to sell for msrp if a deposit is placed and that is the agreement. But to say they can't charge what they wish for a vehicle would be asinine.
Now very many industries do the mfgs tightly regulate the sale of their products, and cars certainly isn't one of them.
Free markets are wonderful in that I can sell my widget for as much as people are willing to pay. If someone wants it bad enough to spend more than everyone else, then god bless them for it. To say that some 'enthusiast' should have a right to a car over someone with more money because you believe they will appreciate it more is ridiculous to say the least. I would love to have a new Murci LP Roadster in my garage, but since I don't have $450k sitting around it doesn't much matter... and if I did, and some other guy said hey i'll give lambo orange county $550k for it, I fully expect them to take the higher bid. The major mistake was the dealer trying to swindle out of their agreement, everything else is totally kosher IMO.
Last edited by Vicious; 07-10-2007 at 10:56 AM.
#22
07-10-2007, 10:54 AM
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I would like to see how many RSs are sitting on dealers lots across the country right now. I think that would be a great number to see. If I have time I will do the research to nite. I think that could be an interesting statistic.
No I dont care if they buy it $200K but its not the enthusiast fault right now I dont believe. what peeves me off is these guys will discard the car like an old hat in a couple months. If they were a true enthusiast I dont care what they pay for it on the seoncdary market. My question is how dirty is the dealers hands here.
No I dont care if they buy it $200K but its not the enthusiast fault right now I dont believe. what peeves me off is these guys will discard the car like an old hat in a couple months. If they were a true enthusiast I dont care what they pay for it on the seoncdary market. My question is how dirty is the dealers hands here.
Last edited by OldGuy; 07-10-2007 at 10:57 AM.
#23
07-10-2007, 11:36 AM
Originally Posted by OldGuy
Why is our right to talk about this being taken away? do we live in eastern Europe or China?
I dont understand why it even matters if its Richs allocation or not. Technically it probably isnt. They sold it to another dealer. Thats the BIG problem here-cant you guys see that?
Dealer A has Joes Deposit. MMC has Richs Deposit. MMC sells Richs car to Dealer D for $20K over. MMC buys Joe allocation from Dealer A. MMC sells Dealers A's car (Joes) for $75K over to whomever. Rich and Joe are SCREWED.
The dealers all make a quick buck and ARTIFICIALLY drive up the market. If they WERENT we would be seeing independent people selling these RS's Not MMC with several over their stated allocation. There are dealers all over the country with cars on the lot for $75K over. How did that happen?
Now MMC cant get Rich a allocation but they have no problem getting him one for $210K!!!
Technically they are telling the truth when they say its not Richs Allocation
but its still a slime ball deal all over the US not just MMC- My dealer on the west coast has 2 RS sitting on the lot for $180K- RPM sports cars had 2 sitting on the lot- how do dealers have cars whilst customers have unfilled deposits?
I dont understand why it even matters if its Richs allocation or not. Technically it probably isnt. They sold it to another dealer. Thats the BIG problem here-cant you guys see that?
Dealer A has Joes Deposit. MMC has Richs Deposit. MMC sells Richs car to Dealer D for $20K over. MMC buys Joe allocation from Dealer A. MMC sells Dealers A's car (Joes) for $75K over to whomever. Rich and Joe are SCREWED.
The dealers all make a quick buck and ARTIFICIALLY drive up the market. If they WERENT we would be seeing independent people selling these RS's Not MMC with several over their stated allocation. There are dealers all over the country with cars on the lot for $75K over. How did that happen?
Now MMC cant get Rich a allocation but they have no problem getting him one for $210K!!!
Technically they are telling the truth when they say its not Richs Allocation
but its still a slime ball deal all over the US not just MMC- My dealer on the west coast has 2 RS sitting on the lot for $180K- RPM sports cars had 2 sitting on the lot- how do dealers have cars whilst customers have unfilled deposits?
6Speed (IMO) has a long history of pandering to Sponsors, removing posts and censorship.
You have to be very careful on here to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Caveat Emptor!
#24
07-10-2007, 11:36 AM
Originally Posted by OldGuy
I would like to see how many RSs are sitting on dealers lots across the country right now. I think that would be a great number to see. If I have time I will do the research to nite. I think that could be an interesting statistic.
No I dont care if they buy it $200K but its not the enthusiast fault right now I dont believe. what peeves me off is these guys will discard the car like an old hat in a couple months. If they were a true enthusiast I dont care what they pay for it on the seoncdary market. My question is how dirty is the dealers hands here.
No I dont care if they buy it $200K but its not the enthusiast fault right now I dont believe. what peeves me off is these guys will discard the car like an old hat in a couple months. If they were a true enthusiast I dont care what they pay for it on the seoncdary market. My question is how dirty is the dealers hands here.
#25
07-10-2007, 11:54 AM
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The exact same thing happened to me not once but twice by Herb Chambers in Mass.
The first orange RS was sold from under me for a couple G's more and the one that is there right now was to be sold to me for 179K (which is 27K over MSRP) but they now want $199,997... not a penny less so I walked, this would have been the 3rd purchase I have made from them but now I have a seriously bad taste in my mouth, ah I bought a Lambo instead and maybe someday I will buy another GT2 but as far as I am concerned I will never buy a "new" Porsche again
these dealers are trying to make up for the "bomb" Cayenne sales and I also had one of those as well, UGH!
Ferrari sales tactics do not work in the Porsche world IMO
The first orange RS was sold from under me for a couple G's more and the one that is there right now was to be sold to me for 179K (which is 27K over MSRP) but they now want $199,997... not a penny less so I walked, this would have been the 3rd purchase I have made from them but now I have a seriously bad taste in my mouth, ah I bought a Lambo instead and maybe someday I will buy another GT2 but as far as I am concerned I will never buy a "new" Porsche again
these dealers are trying to make up for the "bomb" Cayenne sales and I also had one of those as well, UGH!
Ferrari sales tactics do not work in the Porsche world IMO
#26
07-10-2007, 12:03 PM
US/CDN$ disparity is the cause of this problem.
In 2004, prices between US and CDN were 3%, today it's 21%. Huge disparity. What compounds the problem is as follows:
1. Only 229 2007 RS's were made for NA.
2. Only 20 made it to Canada
3. Western Candada is now booming with OIL money.
4 Ontario has always been a hot market for cars.
5. All it takes is 20 Cdn's wanting an RS - and that is 9% of all the cars available - to cause the bubble to grow.
The US has 200 cars and CDN's are willing to at least spend $50K above MSRP b/c they couldnt get one in Canada and b/c even if they could get one in Canada they would have to spend that much anyways. This further drives any unallocated cars to the US to be sold above the MSRP.
If Porsche adjusted pricing to compensate for US/CDN$ disparity, they would KILL the Pre-Owned market.
If you want to blame anyone, blame your government for printing too much money to pay for the Iraq war.
In 2004, prices between US and CDN were 3%, today it's 21%. Huge disparity. What compounds the problem is as follows:
1. Only 229 2007 RS's were made for NA.
2. Only 20 made it to Canada
3. Western Candada is now booming with OIL money.
4 Ontario has always been a hot market for cars.
5. All it takes is 20 Cdn's wanting an RS - and that is 9% of all the cars available - to cause the bubble to grow.
The US has 200 cars and CDN's are willing to at least spend $50K above MSRP b/c they couldnt get one in Canada and b/c even if they could get one in Canada they would have to spend that much anyways. This further drives any unallocated cars to the US to be sold above the MSRP.
If Porsche adjusted pricing to compensate for US/CDN$ disparity, they would KILL the Pre-Owned market.
If you want to blame anyone, blame your government for printing too much money to pay for the Iraq war.
#27
07-10-2007, 12:44 PM
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Your gonna have to explain governments fault I dont know how to follow that one. And all the RSs I see are on lots in the USA. I dont see how our Canadian cousins are responsible for a $180K California car.
#28
07-10-2007, 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by PTarga
Perhaps you forgot Elmo, PS3, WII, Iphone. Same thing, just more money. Think about it, would dealers be screwing their customers if customers were unwilling to pay above MSRP? Of course not.
of course not. that would be absurd. turd.
#29
07-10-2007, 01:26 PM
guys you are mostly long time members, so you should know to not make personal attacks. Please stop. (This is a warning.)
#30
07-10-2007, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by controlit
guys you are mostly long time members, so you should know to not make personal attacks. Please stop. (This is a warning.)
