Comparison test between 997TT, GT3, GT3 RS and C2S w/ X51. Surprising results.
#46
08-26-2007, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by Hamann7
I would take a GT3-RS over a 997TT any day.
Turbos are fast around the track because those VTG Turbos spool up fast and give you great response coming out of corners and pulling down the straights, but no way that its entry speed into corners matches the GT3/RS as it is much heavier and has an inferior suspension setup. The fact that the Turbo is fast enough to compensate for its weight and lack of handling does not necessarily make it a great track car. With the GT3, you can feel everything that is going on with the car, and for many drivers, they can easily yield better times in a GT3 because the handling characteristics can inspire more confidence.
The GT3-RS is worth the money for those who truly appreciate the car. Obviously many here do not. The car has a homologation-spec suspension which is used on the 997 RSR, which allows for minimal camber change even at lower ride height through the use of different carriers and multi-link "wishbone" setup. The wheel carriers are made of hollow cast magnesium and save several pounds per corner in unsprung weight, while providing optimal geometry through enhanced suspension pickup points.
Thr Turbo is a great everyday GT. The GT3 and GT3-RS are a better driver's car.
And I disagree with the statement that 0.6 seconds is insignificant around a short course where the lap time is around 1 minute and change. After two laps, it's 1.2 seconds. After 10 laps, it's 6 seconds... and that's a lot in racing! Do you have any idea what race teams would spend to shave 0.6 seconds off of their cars?
But who cares about all this nonsense when you can have the best of both worlds and buy a GT2 (or a Carrera GT)?
Turbos are fast around the track because those VTG Turbos spool up fast and give you great response coming out of corners and pulling down the straights, but no way that its entry speed into corners matches the GT3/RS as it is much heavier and has an inferior suspension setup. The fact that the Turbo is fast enough to compensate for its weight and lack of handling does not necessarily make it a great track car. With the GT3, you can feel everything that is going on with the car, and for many drivers, they can easily yield better times in a GT3 because the handling characteristics can inspire more confidence.
The GT3-RS is worth the money for those who truly appreciate the car. Obviously many here do not. The car has a homologation-spec suspension which is used on the 997 RSR, which allows for minimal camber change even at lower ride height through the use of different carriers and multi-link "wishbone" setup. The wheel carriers are made of hollow cast magnesium and save several pounds per corner in unsprung weight, while providing optimal geometry through enhanced suspension pickup points.
Thr Turbo is a great everyday GT. The GT3 and GT3-RS are a better driver's car.
And I disagree with the statement that 0.6 seconds is insignificant around a short course where the lap time is around 1 minute and change. After two laps, it's 1.2 seconds. After 10 laps, it's 6 seconds... and that's a lot in racing! Do you have any idea what race teams would spend to shave 0.6 seconds off of their cars?
But who cares about all this nonsense when you can have the best of both worlds and buy a GT2 (or a Carrera GT)?
On the other hand, if you define drivers car as one that enables the driver to maximize his/her driving skills thereby producing competitive times and results then I disagree that the GT3/RS are better driver cars.
A car that is easy to drive fast is much more preferable to a car that is not. Those that are not should be left to the professionals.
Finally regarding the paucity of GT3RS's which apparently is generating over MSRP premiums, my comment is only the hardcore Porschephiles would know it is a RS and what that means. For 99.9% of the driving public it looks like every other Porsche except for the Ricer whale tail which appears to be aftermarket.
#47
08-26-2007, 03:25 PM
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Originally Posted by Hamann7
Thre Turbo is a great everyday GT. The GT3 and GT3-RS are a better driver's car.
And I disagree with the statement that 0.6 seconds is insignificant around a short course where the lap time is around 1 minute and change. After two laps, it's 1.2 seconds. After 10 laps, it's 6 seconds... and that's a lot in racing! Do you have any idea what race teams would spend to shave 0.6 seconds off of their cars?
And I disagree with the statement that 0.6 seconds is insignificant around a short course where the lap time is around 1 minute and change. After two laps, it's 1.2 seconds. After 10 laps, it's 6 seconds... and that's a lot in racing! Do you have any idea what race teams would spend to shave 0.6 seconds off of their cars?
As far as it being a "better driver's" car, as nberry just posted, that totally depends on the driver. It's purely subjective.
What we can all agree on is that even though they each have their strong points, they are all truly wonderful cars that are well suited to any type of driving one could choose to do.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 08-26-2007 at 03:28 PM.
#48
08-26-2007, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by nberry
I suspect 99% of the members of this site as well as other Porsche sites will have better track times driving the 997TT than the Gt3 and/RS. So if your definition of a drivers car is the best drivers in the world would be able to extract a marginal better time in the RS/GT3 then you are right.
On the other hand, if you define drivers car as one that enables the driver to maximize his/her driving skills thereby producing competitive times and results then I disagree that the GT3/RS are better driver cars.
A car that is easy to drive fast is much more preferable to a car that is not. Those that are not should be left to the professionals.
Finally regarding the paucity of GT3RS's which apparently is generating over MSRP premiums, my comment is only the hardcore Porschephiles would know it is a RS and what that means. For 99.9% of the driving public it looks like every other Porsche except for the Ricer whale tail which appears to be aftermarket.
On the other hand, if you define drivers car as one that enables the driver to maximize his/her driving skills thereby producing competitive times and results then I disagree that the GT3/RS are better driver cars.
A car that is easy to drive fast is much more preferable to a car that is not. Those that are not should be left to the professionals.
Finally regarding the paucity of GT3RS's which apparently is generating over MSRP premiums, my comment is only the hardcore Porschephiles would know it is a RS and what that means. For 99.9% of the driving public it looks like every other Porsche except for the Ricer whale tail which appears to be aftermarket.
However I have to agree the GT3 is a more involved car to drive and you can FEEL the difference in handling.
As for racing, as I mentioned before the GT3 will be able to turn lap after lap without blinking but the TT will suffer from brake fade, tire fade, heat soak etc in a long race, the GT3 is no doubt a better track car, the TT is good for sprints.
#49
08-27-2007, 10:46 AM
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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As a C2S X51 owner I have a different perspective after reading the article yesterday.
As I'm using my 997S 98% for the road and only 2% of time on the track, I am happy that I made the right decision. If PCCB and cup tires are fitted to the tested C2S, I wonder how much track time it will shave off.
For track use GT3 and RS are the Kings.
If I were to pick one out of the 4, it has to be the Turbo. It really is the all round super car.
As I'm using my 997S 98% for the road and only 2% of time on the track, I am happy that I made the right decision. If PCCB and cup tires are fitted to the tested C2S, I wonder how much track time it will shave off.
For track use GT3 and RS are the Kings.
If I were to pick one out of the 4, it has to be the Turbo. It really is the all round super car.
#50
11-29-2007, 02:26 AM
a C2S 0-60 takes only 4.4s,even faster than the GT3.Are those "cup tyres" slow down the GT3/RS?because of temp. or what else?
#51
11-29-2007, 03:30 AM
Who cares about all these damn numbers? 0-60 is such a stupid metric. Whoever races to 60mph anway, even if you're into that kinda thing (if so, may I recommend a TT or Z06). Folks should go drive all three (C2S, GT3, TT) and decide for themselves what is right.
I owned a TT and didn't care for it all that much. So refined, things didn't start getting exciting until go straight to jail speeds. The GT3 is the best car I've ever owned -- by far -- and I have no plans on taking it to the track but perhaps once or twice per year. It's exciting to drive whether you're going 25 or 125, and it's a joy to turn whether you're hangin' it out or just takin' it easy. The C2S is a great car too but I'm happy with my choice and I could care less if it goes 0-60 a tad slower than the C2S because of gearing.
I owned a TT and didn't care for it all that much. So refined, things didn't start getting exciting until go straight to jail speeds. The GT3 is the best car I've ever owned -- by far -- and I have no plans on taking it to the track but perhaps once or twice per year. It's exciting to drive whether you're going 25 or 125, and it's a joy to turn whether you're hangin' it out or just takin' it easy. The C2S is a great car too but I'm happy with my choice and I could care less if it goes 0-60 a tad slower than the C2S because of gearing.
#52
11-29-2007, 09:23 PM
Who cares about all these damn numbers? 0-60 is such a stupid metric. Whoever races to 60mph anway, even if you're into that kinda thing (if so, may I recommend a TT or Z06). Folks should go drive all three (C2S, GT3, TT) and decide for themselves what is right.
I owned a TT and didn't care for it all that much. So refined, things didn't start getting exciting until go straight to jail speeds. The GT3 is the best car I've ever owned -- by far -- and I have no plans on taking it to the track but perhaps once or twice per year. It's exciting to drive whether you're going 25 or 125, and it's a joy to turn whether you're hangin' it out or just takin' it easy. The C2S is a great car too but I'm happy with my choice and I could care less if it goes 0-60 a tad slower than the C2S because of gearing.
I owned a TT and didn't care for it all that much. So refined, things didn't start getting exciting until go straight to jail speeds. The GT3 is the best car I've ever owned -- by far -- and I have no plans on taking it to the track but perhaps once or twice per year. It's exciting to drive whether you're going 25 or 125, and it's a joy to turn whether you're hangin' it out or just takin' it easy. The C2S is a great car too but I'm happy with my choice and I could care less if it goes 0-60 a tad slower than the C2S because of gearing.
#53
11-29-2007, 11:16 PM
Hmm man this has been a good argument, a mature one at that no one has gone e-thug on anyone. Then again, there are so many factors and just one test to determine anything. I mean come on the GT3 was engineered for the track from the get go, while the turbo has power and comfort in mind. Its the soul of the car, high revving motor just screams race car, i mean most of the race cars have such motors. Maybe im biased but to me numbers don't mean jack unless your actually racing it. Most of the people who buy these cars opt for certain experiences
#54
11-30-2007, 07:57 AM
Does it really matter that a professional driver is a fraction of a second faster on a track, 99.9% of us can not drive like that anyway so for me it's the whole driving experience that I get every time I drive my GT3 that's far more important than the fraction of a second difference here and there.
When Z06's etc. want to race stoplight to stoplight I just think they really have no idea what driving is all about. After taking driving courses at the PDE I've become much less interested in all out acceleration and much more interested in the other parts of the driving experience (responsiveness, less isolation, etc.) which for me is the GT3. If you ask the PDE instructors who are all Porsche employee's which car they would want it would be unanimous for the GT3.
I like my TT's acceleration and handling but the overall driving experience of the GT3 is more rewarding for me. I don't care that the Z06 or TT will out accelerate me, my GT3 is fast enough. Just my $.02.
When Z06's etc. want to race stoplight to stoplight I just think they really have no idea what driving is all about. After taking driving courses at the PDE I've become much less interested in all out acceleration and much more interested in the other parts of the driving experience (responsiveness, less isolation, etc.) which for me is the GT3. If you ask the PDE instructors who are all Porsche employee's which car they would want it would be unanimous for the GT3.
I like my TT's acceleration and handling but the overall driving experience of the GT3 is more rewarding for me. I don't care that the Z06 or TT will out accelerate me, my GT3 is fast enough. Just my $.02.
Last edited by Bruce; 11-30-2007 at 08:15 AM.
#55
11-30-2007, 07:27 PM
Oh, also let get get someone other than me to drive. We do take pride in the ride don't we.
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