View Poll Results: Choose one
Porsche 2010 GT2
26
22.61%
Lexus LFA
20
17.39%
Ferrari F430 Scuderia
17
14.78%
Lamborghini LP670-4 SuperVeloce
52
45.22%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll
Is Lexus crazy or what? Info on the new LFA.
#211
Quality, and build quality are important to me when buying a luxury car....so as I see it percieved reliability and rarity are the only reasons to buy an LFA. And those qualites in and of theirselves are not enough IMO to put up with the rest of things that you give up. And I am strictly saying buying an LFA to actually enjoy it and not as an investment.
I doubt that everyone in the position to buy an LFA has to choose between only a Spyker or a Koenigsegg or a Pagani or the LFA. Why do you continue to keep thinking in such narrow terms? Try to view the market from a perspective outside of what only you can afford.
#212
Better to remain in grip. Sliding looks cool but it isn't fast.
The problem is that you claimed both Evo and Autocar said something, which they did not. They claimed the exact opposite: the LFA's rear end is easy to control. And like you said, if both Evo and Autocar say something, then it must be true right? What they're saying is that you don't know WTF you're talking about. We can add R&T's comment as well:
"Even with the yaw control completely deactivated, the Lexus behaves predictably with mild understeer."
"Even with the yaw control completely deactivated, the Lexus behaves predictably with mild understeer."
But they did both comment on the lively rear end. Not a good thing for most.
Since when was being utterly stupid as a road car count in your comparison? All you considered was price/performance. Adding 1000 lbs of downforce and MPSC's to a Scuderia makes it even more expensive to merely go just as fast as an ACR. Where's the value there? It's still ****!
How much carpeting is there in a Scuderia? You can have air-con in the ACR too. Do you seriously think a Scuderia is richer in amenities and ride quality than a ZR1 by the tune of nearly $200k?
How much carpeting is there in a Scuderia? You can have air-con in the ACR too. Do you seriously think a Scuderia is richer in amenities and ride quality than a ZR1 by the tune of nearly $200k?
So not sticking to speed limits = setting an F1-qualifying pace that would heat the tires so bad that they chunk after immediately jumping onto a dyno w/o the common-sense pre-dyno checks. Jeez, that's as dumb as anything out of mC's playbook.
A 599 is in this discussion because
1) It's been cited as a more natural competitor to the LFA (both being front-engined GT's and much more limited in numbers and more expensive than mid-engined V8 Ferraris) and
2) the LFA has, on first drive impressions, been assessed as the more agile, more involving drive (and apparently better built), and
3) Ferrari's weight claim for the 599 can be questioned just as it is with other Ferraris, and
4) just like the other Ferrari's in Evo's tests, the 599 was accompanied by a crew because apparently Ferraris need this kind of attention or maintenance that other cars don't seem to. In C&D's test, Ferrari supplied not just one, but 2 different cars.
Seriously, this isn't a rhetorical question: who TF else sends multiple cars, a small crew, even an F1 test driver who helped develop the car for testing?
And how the hell does a 599 represent a good supercar value? Ferrari asks that you cough up an additional $1,776 for prancing pony fender stickers. This on a $320,000 car!? The frame/body are aluminum (not CF made in-house), its engine isn't bespoke, it's made in greater quantities than the LFA, it's no faster than the LFA, it's not more involving to drive than the LFA. Hell, it's slower on just about any track than the Scuderia, which costs less. By your logic, 599 = pointless waste of aluminum. The ZR1 is faster, for 1/3rd the price.
A 599 is in this discussion because
1) It's been cited as a more natural competitor to the LFA (both being front-engined GT's and much more limited in numbers and more expensive than mid-engined V8 Ferraris) and
2) the LFA has, on first drive impressions, been assessed as the more agile, more involving drive (and apparently better built), and
3) Ferrari's weight claim for the 599 can be questioned just as it is with other Ferraris, and
4) just like the other Ferrari's in Evo's tests, the 599 was accompanied by a crew because apparently Ferraris need this kind of attention or maintenance that other cars don't seem to. In C&D's test, Ferrari supplied not just one, but 2 different cars.
Seriously, this isn't a rhetorical question: who TF else sends multiple cars, a small crew, even an F1 test driver who helped develop the car for testing?
And how the hell does a 599 represent a good supercar value? Ferrari asks that you cough up an additional $1,776 for prancing pony fender stickers. This on a $320,000 car!? The frame/body are aluminum (not CF made in-house), its engine isn't bespoke, it's made in greater quantities than the LFA, it's no faster than the LFA, it's not more involving to drive than the LFA. Hell, it's slower on just about any track than the Scuderia, which costs less. By your logic, 599 = pointless waste of aluminum. The ZR1 is faster, for 1/3rd the price.
They're not standard fit. They would have chunked if they dyno'd them after driving as hard. MPSCs are pretty much slicks. CAR commented that the tyres don't actually work at all in the wet. Hence how Porsche scored a 1s win over a Bridgestone-shod 2009 RHD GTR driven by an LHD driver.
#213
Face it. There is absolutely NO performance justification for the 599 when a ZR1 exists. I'm using your logic here.
#214
Originally Posted by Autocar (on Ferrari 458)
Leave the Manettino in ‘low-grip’ or ‘normal’ and the electronics will keep things tidy, switch to ‘race’ and it lets the back slide a little wide under power.
Originally Posted by Evo (on Ferrari 458)
(Systems off)...Now here's the difference. The slow right-hander before the bridge. I get on the gas and yet...Yeehaw! (Next corner) We get on the gas, chasing the throttle, and look what happens here: bit of oversteer.
"But they did both comment on the lively rear end, and if both Evo and Autocar comment on it, it must be true. The 458 exhibits handling which is not a good thing for most. It's garbage with its electronics off."
And yes, this is the exit from a right-hand turn, yet look at the full opposite-lock to the left.
#215
Wrong. The driving experience, the feel, sound, immediacy of controls and engine, are all reasons to buy an LFA. You forget that being different is often reason enough, for people with the means. Do you seriously think all of those $10K+ watches are all that different in quality, and their ability to tell time? Not everyone wants the fanfare that follows from driving a Lamborghini, Ferrari, or Zonda. Sometimes, people want a more aesthetically subtle looking car. Look at the former Boeing president (who's now at the helm of Ford Motor Company): he could easily afford any luxury automobile, but chose Lexus. So did Bill Gates. You think everyone who bought an Aston Martin DB9 or DBS or GT2 or SL65 did so because they couldn't afford a Ferrari F430?
It sounds to me like the LFA is confused its the hardest riding GT car on the market ( it sounds) but it performs worse than the 599 GTB which is more of a hyper GT. So is the LFA a hyper GT in the vein of the SLR and 599 GTB or is it a pure bred sports car?
Oh, wow. So we're bringing it down to straightline dragracing now? Show me a timeslip for a GTB that says 10.851s. The GTB also benefits from treadwear 60 tires, which are plenty soft. Even if the GTB is faster in a straight line, is it $200k faster in a straight line? How about on a road course. Ooops....
Face it. There is absolutely NO performance justification for the 599 when a ZR1 exists. I'm using your logic here.
Face it. There is absolutely NO performance justification for the 599 when a ZR1 exists. I'm using your logic here.
#216
Well it looks like Lexus has gotten about 70% participation into its US Rotary loom and carbon fiber development fund. Unfortunately for Lexus they were unable to add this income to the bottom line.
#217
Your biased hatred for the LFA, and Lexus for that matter, is humorous. Do you bash the outlandishly overpriced Veyron as well? Or do your biased views only apply to automobiles from Japan?
#218
Do you really think I have an unbiased hatred for Lexus, do you really think I don't love what they do in the markets where the cars are priced correctly? Apparently you have a complex because you perhaps don't believe as I do that a car should stand on its merits regardless of its country of origin.
Personally and truthfully I like the LFA, I think it would have been a great competitor and alternative for the Audi R8 slightly below its pricing arena. I just think that I personally would chose another alternative to the LFA due to the things I have already spoken about.
Personally and truthfully I like the LFA, I think it would have been a great competitor and alternative for the Audi R8 slightly below its pricing arena. I just think that I personally would chose another alternative to the LFA due to the things I have already spoken about.
#219
Watch, somebody is going to twin turbocharge/twin supercharge this engine and bring it up to insane metal bending boost lol. engine should be bulletproof although i would rather not. my votes on 670
#220
I like how you cleverly sidestepped the ZR1 vs 599 example: what is the tangible benefit of the 599 when the ZR1 is faster and costs only 1/3rd as much?
#221
anyone who i didn't respond to, am going to side step this land mine...
#222
So now were going to use 2 24 hour races to put the LFA on equal footing with the Corvette's racing heritage all the while insulting me. I am done with this one, it was all good and fun until the insults started flying.
#223
That's exactly what Evo's video said. I could link you to it, if you don't believe me. I'm sure you can find it for yourself, though.
A poll's a poll? No. A poll can be influenced by where you do the poll. Only an idiot thinks otherwise. Do a poll about Mustangs on a Mustang forum. Then do the same on a Ferrari forum. I'll bet you'd get very different results.
If you can't see how an ACR is different from a Scuderia or even a ZR1, then as I say, there's no hope for this conversation. I never said the Caparo T1 was the same type of car as an ACR. I said comparing it to an ACR is like comparing an ACR to a Scuderia or ZR1, such is the difference.
Quit backtracking once you've found your litmus test for bang-for-buck was pretty much **** to begin with.
Torque rating could still be on par with the 599, or greater.
No, I just think it's very disingenuous of Porsche. Everycar they send to comparison tests has over £20,000 of options on top of the £100,000 base price. They're making out as if things like PDK, Sport Chrono, Dynamic engine mounts and torque vectoring are standard, when in reality it costs almost half the price of a GTR on top of the 911 Turbo base price to get these things.
Strawman much? I was talking about whether you think $1,776 prancing pony stickers, optional on a $300k car, represents good value. I guess in your world, so long as it's a Ferrari prancing pony, it is good value. Hypocrite.
They are definitely not a 'standard' option. Yes you can get then from the factory but then you can get a Super Takiyu GTR from the Nismo factory too. Have you ever seen MPSCs? Slicks with little coin slots in them. Completely unusable in the wet. Not just tricky in the wet, but as CAR said, they don't actually work at all in the wet:
(Viper tires snipped)
Look carefully at the pictures. Yes CAR tested it in the wet. Dunlops don't work that great in the wet either but they do work.
(Viper tires snipped)
Look carefully at the pictures. Yes CAR tested it in the wet. Dunlops don't work that great in the wet either but they do work.
The MPSC's on the Viper are not the same exact things as N-Spec (Porsche-spec MPSC's). Take a look at the difference:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7...de-by-side.jpg
Clearly, the N-Spec tires have wider circumferential grooves. And there is an additional groove on the outer tread block that is missing from MPSC's like you'd get on a Viper. Go read the comments by Drivers Republic and Performance Car Magazine on the GT2, which they for sure drove in wet conditions. Go read the comments by some Porsche owners who (unlike you) know the difference between off the shelf MPSC's and N-Spec MPSC's.
I have that issue in front of me. I can't see a single picture with enough resolution to say those are Bridgestones. They're all too small. I can tell you that when Bovingdon and Pistonheads drove it, it was on Dunlops.
Really, Car tested the GT3 in the wet? I don't see them giving any meaningful insight on how the car handles in the wet, other than a quick remark that could apply to semi-slicks in general.
#224
Mitsubishi probably has more racing heritage than Lexus with the Evo. Does that make the Evo a better car for high-performance driving than the LFA? Quite obviously, a Subaru WRX is a better drive than Zonda F, right?
It wasn't all good and fun when you were sidestepping direct questions to you, failing to acknowledge your obvious bias and double standard.
#225
Your idiocy and bias is beyond belief it also defines you as a not very car intelligent fanboy. Do you really think you know more about cars than me? I assume that you do based on your attempts to be condescending. For those that don't know, I own a Lexus personally so I doubt I am the blindly biased anti-fanboy you make me out to be.
You want me to bow down and tell you how impressed I am buy a rotary loom and in house built carbon fiber chassis that delivers no weight savings or handling benefits versus the competition.
You want me to salivate at the mouth over the LFA's 9,000 rpm redline despite the fact that with less displacement the 458 Italia's engine also revs to 9,000 rpm and delivers world beating specific output and torque per liter which shade the larger displacement 1LR-GUE.
You want me to raise the roof for the LFA's single clutch transmission despite the fact that it delivers shift speeds no faster than the competitors single clutch transmission and much slower than the dual clutch competition.
You want me to begrudgingly admit that anyone buying a 458 Italia, Mclaren MP4 or Lamborgini Gallardo is a total idiot for not spending more money and buying the Japanese Mclaren F1 despite the fact that it again with all of its higher technology does not perform better or have more heritage than cars over $100k cheaper.
You win, I admit the LFA is the best car on the planet....they should contact all of those stupid Veyron, Pagani Zonda , Mclaren F1, and Enzo owners and reveal to them the car that puts everything that those pieces of junk do in sharp contrast.
You want me to bow down and tell you how impressed I am buy a rotary loom and in house built carbon fiber chassis that delivers no weight savings or handling benefits versus the competition.
You want me to salivate at the mouth over the LFA's 9,000 rpm redline despite the fact that with less displacement the 458 Italia's engine also revs to 9,000 rpm and delivers world beating specific output and torque per liter which shade the larger displacement 1LR-GUE.
You want me to raise the roof for the LFA's single clutch transmission despite the fact that it delivers shift speeds no faster than the competitors single clutch transmission and much slower than the dual clutch competition.
You want me to begrudgingly admit that anyone buying a 458 Italia, Mclaren MP4 or Lamborgini Gallardo is a total idiot for not spending more money and buying the Japanese Mclaren F1 despite the fact that it again with all of its higher technology does not perform better or have more heritage than cars over $100k cheaper.
You win, I admit the LFA is the best car on the planet....they should contact all of those stupid Veyron, Pagani Zonda , Mclaren F1, and Enzo owners and reveal to them the car that puts everything that those pieces of junk do in sharp contrast.