False. BMW Z8. Audi R8 V10 is slower than a ZR1. Therefore, there is is little justification to buy an R8 V10.

Wrong. The driving experience, the feel, sound, immediacy of controls and engine, are all reasons to buy an LFA. You forget that being different is often reason enough, for people with the means. Do you seriously think all of those $10K+ watches are all that different in quality, and their ability to tell time? Not everyone wants the fanfare that follows from driving a Lamborghini, Ferrari, or Zonda. Sometimes, people want a more aesthetically subtle looking car. Look at the former Boeing president (who's now at the helm of Ford Motor Company): he could easily afford any luxury automobile, but chose Lexus. So did Bill Gates. You think everyone who bought an Aston Martin DB9 or DBS or GT2 or SL65 did so because they couldn't afford a Ferrari F430?

I doubt that everyone in the position to buy an LFA has to choose between only a Spyker or a Koenigsegg or a Pagani or the LFA. Why do you continue to keep thinking in such narrow terms? Try to view the market from a perspective outside of what only you can afford.

 

So Sport Auto closed the track for the GTR test and not the ZR1 test? If they did then so much for their integrity.

Better to remain in grip. Sliding looks cool but it isn't fast.


But they did both comment on the lively rear end. Not a good thing for most.


It's a poll against yesterday's cars. The F458 and MP4 are the LFA's competition and they offer even more. The only reasonably recent car on that poll is thrashing the LFA. As regards the second question, who knows? Anyone could be anyone on the internet. Don't really see that it matters.

Of course it matters. If it didn't matter I'd just say, "Caparo T1 wins, end thread." If you can't tell the difference between a true street sports car and a track-optimised, street-legal race car, there is no hope in this conversation.

Make sure you apply that foil nice and thick.

Don't recall any comments about chunking rubber when the Scuderia was dyno'd. The 599 is a 611bhp car with 448lbft or 621bhp and 500+lbft as Evo measured it. That's an aweful lot of power going through the rear wheels. It also explains why the 599 HGTE can command £207k. Still nowhere near the LFA's ridiculous £350k, which it charges for a pathetic 354lbft V10. As regards the options, Porsche asks people to cough up £24k for something they make like all 911 Turbos have as standard.

They're not standard fit. They would have chunked if they dyno'd them after driving as hard. MPSCs are pretty much slicks. CAR commented that the tyres don't actually work at all in the wet. Hence how Porsche scored a 1s win over a Bridgestone-shod 2009 RHD GTR driven by an LHD driver.

 

Oh, wow. So we're bringing it down to straightline dragracing now? Show me a timeslip for a GTB that says 10.851s. The GTB also benefits from treadwear 60 tires, which are plenty soft. Even if the GTB is faster in a straight line, is it $200k faster in a straight line? How about on a road course. Ooops....
Face it. There is absolutely NO performance justification for the 599 when a ZR1 exists. I'm using your logic here.

 

So, to sum up the 458's handling using BD-logic:
"But they did both comment on the lively rear end, and if both Evo and Autocar comment on it, it must be true. The 458 exhibits handling which is not a good thing for most. It's garbage with its electronics off."

And yes, this is the exit from a right-hand turn, yet look at the full opposite-lock to the left.

 

So your telling me cars like the LP670 don't deliver all that the LFA does in those areas? Plus provide more performance and heritage as well as brand image? Oh wait I forgot the 0.6 seconds thru the rev range in neutral shades the LP670 trapping 130 mph and running within a few tenths of a Veyron to 60 mph or do they? When you talk watches your talking about chosing something different that functions the same are you not?

It sounds to me like the LFA is confused its the hardest riding GT car on the market ( it sounds) but it performs worse than the 599 GTB which is more of a hyper GT. So is the LFA a hyper GT in the vein of the SLR and 599 GTB or is it a pure bred sports car?




Well considering the ZR1 provides a better ride and runs the " Ring " as a GT car close to the same times as the track rat ACR then maybe the ZR1 makes the LFA irrelavent too? Of course using your logic the LFA's interior is worth $275k? Oh wait maybe its the racing heritage that the LFA has?

 

Well it looks like Lexus has gotten about 70% participation into its US Rotary loom and carbon fiber development fund. Unfortunately for Lexus they were unable to add this income to the bottom line.

 

Your biased hatred for the LFA, and Lexus for that matter, is humorous. Do you bash the outlandishly overpriced Veyron as well? Or do your biased views only apply to automobiles from Japan?

 

Do you really think I have an unbiased hatred for Lexus, do you really think I don't love what they do in the markets where the cars are priced correctly? Apparently you have a complex because you perhaps don't believe as I do that a car should stand on its merits regardless of its country of origin.

Personally and truthfully I like the LFA, I think it would have been a great competitor and alternative for the Audi R8 slightly below its pricing arena. I just think that I personally would chose another alternative to the LFA due to the things I have already spoken about.

 

Watch, somebody is going to twin turbocharge/twin supercharge this engine and bring it up to insane metal bending boost lol. engine should be bulletproof although i would rather not. my votes on 670

 

LMFAO. You say a car should stand on its own merits and offer a tangible benefit for the asking price, yet you bring up "heritage as well as brand image" when talking about the SV. What tangible benefit does the SV's heritage and brand image provide? The pre-existing engine and steel frame? So Lambo have finally stepped up and made the Murcielago they should have made from the beginning. BFD.
I like how you cleverly sidestepped the ZR1 vs 599 example: what is the tangible benefit of the 599 when the ZR1 is faster and costs only 1/3rd as much?

 

anyone who i didn't respond to, am going to side step this land mine...

 

So now were going to use 2 24 hour races to put the LFA on equal footing with the Corvette's racing heritage all the while insulting me. I am done with this one, it was all good and fun until the insults started flying.

 

I never implied anything of the sort. All along I've been saying Sport Auto's method of the supertest is the same for each car. To then claim that one car got the benefit of a closed track doesn't make sense.

That's exactly what Evo's video said. I could link you to it, if you don't believe me. I'm sure you can find it for yourself, though.

A poll's a poll? No. A poll can be influenced by where you do the poll. Only an idiot thinks otherwise. Do a poll about Mustangs on a Mustang forum. Then do the same on a Ferrari forum. I'll bet you'd get very different results.

Yeah, you said one difference is the level of carpeting in the ACR. I'm waiting for a picture of the Scuderia's plush carpeting.
Quit backtracking once you've found your litmus test for bang-for-buck was pretty much **** to begin with.

Wait. How do you know the Scuderia's tires wouldn't have chunked if it had been run to redline. You don't know that it wouldn't. And even if it didn't, it would prove my point: the Scuderia's soft as hell tires didn't chunk, while the 599's did.

So 70 hp is the precise difference between a tire chunking and not chunking. You don't think 552 bhp is a lot? Okayyy...
Torque rating could still be on par with the 599, or greater.

Where did I say the Scuderia's tires were anomalous?

Who gives a crap? If it comes that way from the factory, then there's no problem. You're just crying because the Turbo is now as fast (or faster) than the GT-R.
Strawman much? I was talking about whether you think $1,776 prancing pony stickers, optional on a $300k car, represents good value. I guess in your world, so long as it's a Ferrari prancing pony, it is good value. Hypocrite.

Waitaminute. In your very next post, why don't you show me exactly what the standard GT3 tires (as equipped in Germany and the UK) are, if they are not MPSC's.
The MPSC's on the Viper are not the same exact things as N-Spec (Porsche-spec MPSC's). Take a look at the difference:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7...de-by-side.jpg
Clearly, the N-Spec tires have wider circumferential grooves. And there is an additional groove on the outer tread block that is missing from MPSC's like you'd get on a Viper. Go read the comments by Drivers Republic and Performance Car Magazine on the GT2, which they for sure drove in wet conditions. Go read the comments by some Porsche owners who (unlike you) know the difference between off the shelf MPSC's and N-Spec MPSC's.
I have that issue in front of me. I can't see a single picture with enough resolution to say those are Bridgestones. They're all too small. I can tell you that when Bovingdon and Pistonheads drove it, it was on Dunlops.
Really, Car tested the GT3 in the wet? I don't see them giving any meaningful insight on how the car handles in the wet, other than a quick remark that could apply to semi-slicks in general.

 

The Corvette's racing heritage wasn't built on running a supercharged engine. The major Le Mans titles were for a car with a steel frame, not the alloy frame of the ZR1 and Z06. Plenty of fabrication and engine building by Pratt & Miller. Bespoke race dampers and adjustable coil springs, not standards street dampers and leaf springs; the dampers on the LFA are the same ones used during the 'Ring races. The Corvette racers have been successful for years, but only recently did the Z06 get an upgrade in its oil supply system to deal with starvation problems during high-g cornering. Now, ask yourself why that is.
Mitsubishi probably has more racing heritage than Lexus with the Evo. Does that make the Evo a better car for high-performance driving than the LFA? Quite obviously, a Subaru WRX is a better drive than Zonda F, right?
It wasn't all good and fun when you were sidestepping direct questions to you, failing to acknowledge your obvious bias and double standard.

 

Your idiocy and bias is beyond belief it also defines you as a not very car intelligent fanboy. Do you really think you know more about cars than me? I assume that you do based on your attempts to be condescending. For those that don't know, I own a Lexus personally so I doubt I am the blindly biased anti-fanboy you make me out to be.

You want me to bow down and tell you how impressed I am buy a rotary loom and in house built carbon fiber chassis that delivers no weight savings or handling benefits versus the competition.

You want me to salivate at the mouth over the LFA's 9,000 rpm redline despite the fact that with less displacement the 458 Italia's engine also revs to 9,000 rpm and delivers world beating specific output and torque per liter which shade the larger displacement 1LR-GUE.

You want me to raise the roof for the LFA's single clutch transmission despite the fact that it delivers shift speeds no faster than the competitors single clutch transmission and much slower than the dual clutch competition.

You want me to begrudgingly admit that anyone buying a 458 Italia, Mclaren MP4 or Lamborgini Gallardo is a total idiot for not spending more money and buying the Japanese Mclaren F1 despite the fact that it again with all of its higher technology does not perform better or have more heritage than cars over $100k cheaper.

You win, I admit the LFA is the best car on the planet....they should contact all of those stupid Veyron, Pagani Zonda , Mclaren F1, and Enzo owners and reveal to them the car that puts everything that those pieces of junk do in sharp contrast.