cgt > lfa

 

Finally a post that makes sense, can't imagine why people compare the LFA to the GT2 or the TT, the GT2 is an awesome vehicle but it does not compare to a CGT.

 

Here's how so: the 458 isn't made from CF. Simple, no? The 458 is using existing body/chassis methods and tooling carried over from the F430 carried over from the 360 Modena (which at the time, used ALCOA's personnel and "factory within a factory" to produce the aluminum shells; Ferrari didn't start making them themselves).
As for weights, don't put too much faith in them. Are you comparing Ferrari's dry weights or their curb weights with fluids?

Some of the figures I posted were at the same speed (124 mph). How is the lift created by the F430 @ 124 mph magically going to result in hundreds of pounds of downforce at 186 mph? Does it have active aero like the Enzo?
The F1 comment is ridiculous. Ferrari makes no claims about the downforce of F1 cars and even if they did, we would have no idea if the figures would be different somewhere else.


And do you seriously think the Enzo was priced at true market value? Think about that before replying.

Show me the cornering speed data that proves the F360/F430 produces hundreds of pounds of downforce at 186 mph.

It's not 300kg. More like 162kg, as measured by the same scale (Sport Auto's).
These two recorded times on the 'Ring within 5 seconds of each other. For a long track with many variables, that's pretty much the same time. On the short Hockenheim track, the ZR1 was faster (1:09.7 vs 1:10.8). They also recorded the same 0-200 kph time of 11.4s.
Aha, so now a bespoke interior suddenly matters and justifies the 6x price difference of the Zonda? C'mon, get real. What happened to your previous argument that only the end result of the technology (PERFORMANCE) is what matters?
BTW, I could have just as easily used the regular Zonda C12S to illustrate the same point: less power, less torque, slower on NRing and HRing, yet the C12S cost much more. And it was still the same when the original Zonda had a largely unmodified Mercedes engine producing ~400 hp. A Porsche Turbo or GT2 of the time would have matched its performance for far, far less. So what was the point of all that CF? Such a waste, right? Only unwitting fools would buy such a car when a 360 Modena could match it for a fraction of the price.

Confusion? You can't seem to even understand why the Z8 cost more than the M5 with pretty similar mechanicals...

 

Why don't you ask this guy about the LFA? Unlike all of us he's actually been in one.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...xperience.html

 

very well said

 

thanks for the link, the video he provide was also cool, but honestly do you really think this car is worth $400,000, honestly......
P.S I would like everyone to chime in on this.
It's ok to agree or disagree, i just want to see, how many people agree.
Thanks.....

 

Comparing kerb weights. LFA - 1485kg (1500kg Euro), F458 - 1480kg.

Downforce from aerodynamic surfaces always increases with speed by virtue of the equation Lift = 0.5*Cl*density*Area*v^2. If can only be reduced with speed by virtue of active surfaces. You need to gain a better grasp of aerodynamics before responding.

I wonder why they make no claims about the aerodynamic performance of F1 cars? Probably for the same reason that the US DoD don't make accurate public assertations as to the performance of military aircraft. Despite this I think it's safe to assume that both of the above know more about aerodynamics and the measurement thereof than Sport Auto. I really must confess that Sport Auto are probably my least favourite automotive magazine, along with 1 or 2 Spanish outfits, who can't for the life of them get consistent or meaningful results when compared with other magazines or even other results from their own magazine. They're like an automotive version of FOX News.

Irrelevant. That was the price.

It's reflected in the better lap times and since you like sport auto, why not dig up some of their supertests and look at the cornering g. Unless you're asking why downforce is greater at 186mph than 124mph, in which case I give up, but as an act of charity I will provide you with this instrumented ACR 'ring lap that has a downforce bar along the right. See how it increases with speed. As a further act of kindness I will offer you one last piece of advice: desist from reading Sport Auto. It will only confuse you and lead you to all manner of delusions, like a GT2 being 2s/minute faster than an LP560-4 and 1s/minute faster than a Scuderia. Their tests and measurements are proven to have no foundation in physics, nor the wider time-space continuum.

ZR1 - 1528kg
Zonda F - 1230kg

...as measured by a more accurate scale.

Sport Auto again? You should try looking at other figures like Autocar and Evo where the Zonda F makes 10s-dead with the best recording being 9.8s. However, a mere sound knowledge of maths would have led you to the conclusion that a lighter car with the same power and more weight over the rear must be quicker 0-124mph.

Comparing Sport Auto 'ring laps is like comparing the time taken for a daily commute in 2 separate cars on 2 different days. There's a whole multitude of factors at large beyond the cars themself.

Because comparing an LFA interior to an F458 or MP4-12C interior is like comparing a Zonda interior to a Chevy interior? Your reasoning is astounding.

Why not bring the Ferrari Testarossa into the argument too? I mean another 10-15 years further back in time and that's where you'll be. I know, I'll compare a C4 'vette with a Zonda F instead shall I?

Well it looks like the first Zonda might not have been such a good deal. How does this help your LFA case again?

You're right, I can't. Ghastly little things Z8s.

 

Please explain.

 

I love it, you guys are really going in, i guess thats the only way to compare, when you are talking about buying cars over a quarter mil.... keep it clean though, we all share the same interest for cars, i didn't know it was going to be a turn out like this though, thanks for all the input, it really helps everyone out, that doesn't know, and that only reads what information is provided in magazines. I thank you all, for all the info, keep it coming. This what makes forum good.....

 

Factoring in performance, technology, build, and exclusivity. Yes.

 

He said it is worth it. And he owns an F430.

The problem w/ this thread is that it was started w/ an inherent bias against Japanese cars from the beginning. Then more of these people chimed in. The best opinion would come from REAL car enthusiasts (instead of those who get a hard-on for only European cars) who actually are in the position to afford one (like the person in the aforemention thread, and Jay Leno).

On other forums people think that if they're going to spend 200-400K on one car it's going to be the only one they'll ever buy. Hence, the bias against the Japanese.

 

Very nicely stated.

 

I'd rather have a GTR!

 

It can't be explained, that's my point. It's a ridiculous quantum leap of logic. It's like comparing a Maybach interior with a Rolls-Royce and then with a Daewoo.