LFA 1st Test, Z06 speed for 599 GTB money!
#241
06-11-2010, 10:37 AM
You can't say that because there are cars on that list that you do own, and others you aspire to own. But when I ask a simple question of if you received $400k tomorrow would you next call be to Lexus and no one has specifically said they would buy one. That is crazy, I would not spend that much time blindly defending a car that I would never want!
Guibo we have already established where you are on a scale between 0 to fanboy. Does anyone else have anything valid or thought provoking to add?
You guys act as if people want to spend $400k and compromise on the things that typically make a car worth $400k. Are there eccentric people that only care about rarity that will buy the car? Of course there is but the fact that no one has stepped up and said they would buy one means in the back of your mind that you guys are not convinced the Lexus is as truly revolutionary as you say it is!
Guibo we have already established where you are on a scale between 0 to fanboy. Does anyone else have anything valid or thought provoking to add?
You guys act as if people want to spend $400k and compromise on the things that typically make a car worth $400k. Are there eccentric people that only care about rarity that will buy the car? Of course there is but the fact that no one has stepped up and said they would buy one means in the back of your mind that you guys are not convinced the Lexus is as truly revolutionary as you say it is!
Would i own 1 of these sure i would just cause the sound is nice, dash is cool, and it has some interesting features.. But it would be somewhere around car # 20 in the line of cars i would buy if i had the $$$..
Mike
#242
06-11-2010, 10:54 AM
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kirkland
Posts: 2,571
Rep Power: 177 
I would be willing to bet 400k that if they took a survey of EVERY SINGLE buyer who bought an LFA and asked them " is this the only car you own over 100k there would be 0 of them who said YES ",, NOBODY in their right mind who has 400k is going to purchase that car as their primary exotic and nobody on this forum could ever convince me otherwise..
Would i own 1 of these sure i would just cause the sound is nice, dash is cool, and it has some interesting features.. But it would be somewhere around car # 20 in the line of cars i would buy if i had the $$$..
Mike
Would i own 1 of these sure i would just cause the sound is nice, dash is cool, and it has some interesting features.. But it would be somewhere around car # 20 in the line of cars i would buy if i had the $$$..
Mike
#243
06-11-2010, 12:45 PM
Competition is healthy
If a board like this existed 20 years ago we would have heard the same arguments between the C4 ZR-1 and NSX. At 17 pages and growing it can be a great way to increase your stature with post counts.
After reading this entire thread it appears that a LFA buyer has not bothered posting a note. Perhaps all the performance for $'s discussion is trivial to them. They spend the same amount for a weekend vacation in what some of us make in an entire year and don't think anything of it. Amongst their houses, airplanes, boats, art, jewelry, cars, etc... it is just another object. To put in relative terms, the LF-A would be just another car in their "die-cast" model car collection. The performance they are concerned with are their companies and pet projects.
Selling a non-competitive car at an exorbitant cost and still sustaining a loss while still not being considered a super car quality automaker is indeed what automakers do. It is called the halo effect. It has happened, is happening, and will happen.
It's great to see Toyota throw their hat into the ring. I feel it is appropriate that one of the largest auto manufacturers in the world produce a supercar.
After reading this entire thread it appears that a LFA buyer has not bothered posting a note. Perhaps all the performance for $'s discussion is trivial to them. They spend the same amount for a weekend vacation in what some of us make in an entire year and don't think anything of it. Amongst their houses, airplanes, boats, art, jewelry, cars, etc... it is just another object. To put in relative terms, the LF-A would be just another car in their "die-cast" model car collection. The performance they are concerned with are their companies and pet projects.
Selling a non-competitive car at an exorbitant cost and still sustaining a loss while still not being considered a super car quality automaker is indeed what automakers do. It is called the halo effect. It has happened, is happening, and will happen.
It's great to see Toyota throw their hat into the ring. I feel it is appropriate that one of the largest auto manufacturers in the world produce a supercar.
#244
06-11-2010, 02:36 PM
3200lbs, 670 hp, Ferrari heritage[its not the end all be all but it is a factor in this price range imho], faster than outgoing Enzo around Fiorano that also did the Ring in 7:24, for 426-460k
I just cant see buying an LF-A with cars like this out there for similar money that can be as fast or faster around a track but would blow the doors off of it in the straights. If I can afford 400k for the LF-A then I surely can scrounge up a few more thousand for the 599 GTO which will also be exclusive and has been sold out. Only 599 units will be made. When the 560 Gallardo SL drops that will be another faster for the money option.
This is why I tried to get everyone to take a step back and look at what each have been saying. I think everyone in this thread agrees with that bolded statement you made so there really is no one fighting against this argument. Certainly not me. I freely said this many times. Its the straightline performance and the front end that bugs the heck out of me and others.
I just cant see buying an LF-A with cars like this out there for similar money that can be as fast or faster around a track but would blow the doors off of it in the straights. If I can afford 400k for the LF-A then I surely can scrounge up a few more thousand for the 599 GTO which will also be exclusive and has been sold out. Only 599 units will be made. When the 560 Gallardo SL drops that will be another faster for the money option.
This is why I tried to get everyone to take a step back and look at what each have been saying. I think everyone in this thread agrees with that bolded statement you made so there really is no one fighting against this argument. Certainly not me. I freely said this many times. Its the straightline performance and the front end that bugs the heck out of me and others.
Last edited by snakebitten; 06-11-2010 at 02:44 PM.
#245
06-11-2010, 03:21 PM
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kirkland
Posts: 2,571
Rep Power: 177
I agree, but even though I own a Lexus hybrid which in my opinion is one of the best SUV's made and really makes me appreciate Lexus as a brand. I can't say that I agree with their efforts to clean up what happens after a 10 year development period that changes focus many times and you can't decide wether to build a GT car or sports car. My Lexus tells me they can build anything they put their mind to. I get 27 mpg in a 4300 lb SUV which not only weighs more but handles better and has more power than its cheaper 16 mpg average sibling!
Nissan did a lot of engineering by press release earlier on, this created a lot of fan boys waxing poetically about the car years before it came out. But I had to begrudgingly admit that despite controversy, they amazingly made a car that you could logically chose over the former king of Bang for the Buck! Toyota had the same opportunity to create a car that punched above its weight and used its technology to actually create a real and measured performance advantage over cars that came before it.
The LFA for all intents and purposes is slower in a straight line than a $200k SLS, IMO it also looks worse and does not have the brand heritage and experience and history that a car like the SLS draws from. In exchange for that you get a yesterday transmission that is worse than the SLS for twice the money! In Exchange for almost twice your money you get a car that is rarer than already rare cars and has a slight performance advantage on a race track. Which lets face it you would be pretty stupid to go 10/10ths in a one of 500 car right???
Again I ask you to ask yourselves, what do you think happened with the LFA. With the recent media debacle and the hemorraging of cash do you think they finally had to stop development instead of continuing to pour cash into the LFA program? Would you as a company owner want your halo car to not have a clear advantage over its competition if you plan on asking for a significant cost raise vs its competition?
And seriously if you have hemoglobin inside your body, can you say that the LFA is better than this car? Just Saying!
Nissan did a lot of engineering by press release earlier on, this created a lot of fan boys waxing poetically about the car years before it came out. But I had to begrudgingly admit that despite controversy, they amazingly made a car that you could logically chose over the former king of Bang for the Buck! Toyota had the same opportunity to create a car that punched above its weight and used its technology to actually create a real and measured performance advantage over cars that came before it.
The LFA for all intents and purposes is slower in a straight line than a $200k SLS, IMO it also looks worse and does not have the brand heritage and experience and history that a car like the SLS draws from. In exchange for that you get a yesterday transmission that is worse than the SLS for twice the money! In Exchange for almost twice your money you get a car that is rarer than already rare cars and has a slight performance advantage on a race track. Which lets face it you would be pretty stupid to go 10/10ths in a one of 500 car right???
Again I ask you to ask yourselves, what do you think happened with the LFA. With the recent media debacle and the hemorraging of cash do you think they finally had to stop development instead of continuing to pour cash into the LFA program? Would you as a company owner want your halo car to not have a clear advantage over its competition if you plan on asking for a significant cost raise vs its competition?
And seriously if you have hemoglobin inside your body, can you say that the LFA is better than this car? Just Saying!
#247
06-11-2010, 06:27 PM
I agree, but even though I own a Lexus hybrid which in my opinion is one of the best SUV's made and really makes me appreciate Lexus as a brand. I can't say that I agree with their efforts to clean up what happens after a 10 year development period that changes focus many times and you can't decide wether to build a GT car or sports car. My Lexus tells me they can build anything they put their mind to. I get 27 mpg in a 4300 lb SUV which not only weighs more but handles better and has more power than its cheaper 16 mpg average sibling!
Nissan did a lot of engineering by press release earlier on, this created a lot of fan boys waxing poetically about the car years before it came out. But I had to begrudgingly admit that despite controversy, they amazingly made a car that you could logically chose over the former king of Bang for the Buck! Toyota had the same opportunity to create a car that punched above its weight and used its technology to actually create a real and measured performance advantage over cars that came before it.
The LFA for all intents and purposes is slower in a straight line than a $200k SLS, IMO it also looks worse and does not have the brand heritage and experience and history that a car like the SLS draws from. In exchange for that you get a yesterday transmission that is worse than the SLS for twice the money! In Exchange for almost twice your money you get a car that is rarer than already rare cars and has a slight performance advantage on a race track. Which lets face it you would be pretty stupid to go 10/10ths in a one of 500 car right???
Again I ask you to ask yourselves, what do you think happened with the LFA. With the recent media debacle and the hemorraging of cash do you think they finally had to stop development instead of continuing to pour cash into the LFA program? Would you as a company owner want your halo car to not have a clear advantage over its competition if you plan on asking for a significant cost raise vs its competition?
And seriously if you have hemoglobin inside your body, can you say that the LFA is better than this car? Just Saying!
Nissan did a lot of engineering by press release earlier on, this created a lot of fan boys waxing poetically about the car years before it came out. But I had to begrudgingly admit that despite controversy, they amazingly made a car that you could logically chose over the former king of Bang for the Buck! Toyota had the same opportunity to create a car that punched above its weight and used its technology to actually create a real and measured performance advantage over cars that came before it.
The LFA for all intents and purposes is slower in a straight line than a $200k SLS, IMO it also looks worse and does not have the brand heritage and experience and history that a car like the SLS draws from. In exchange for that you get a yesterday transmission that is worse than the SLS for twice the money! In Exchange for almost twice your money you get a car that is rarer than already rare cars and has a slight performance advantage on a race track. Which lets face it you would be pretty stupid to go 10/10ths in a one of 500 car right???
Again I ask you to ask yourselves, what do you think happened with the LFA. With the recent media debacle and the hemorraging of cash do you think they finally had to stop development instead of continuing to pour cash into the LFA program? Would you as a company owner want your halo car to not have a clear advantage over its competition if you plan on asking for a significant cost raise vs its competition?
And seriously if you have hemoglobin inside your body, can you say that the LFA is better than this car? Just Saying!
We're on the same page.
The 599 GTO puts damper on Lexus's performance/value ratio. Its very plausible that the budget got axed due to economic situation facing all companys and there own inbred problems of Total Recall as you alluded to. Its sad because I too own a Lexus and I think it is a great brand and I just really expected more. Reminds me of how I feel when I play a video game I like but get frustrated over the developers lack of attention to detail be it control, graphic or interface, that detracts from it being a total winner. Im sure we can all relate to buying a great product that just missed the mark from being perfect. And you just sit there and fume at the designer/developer/programer for instance lol.
Last edited by snakebitten; 06-11-2010 at 08:24 PM.
#248
06-11-2010, 07:08 PM
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kirkland
Posts: 2,571
Rep Power: 177
Wow we are on the same page, not so much mad at the car itself as we are mad at the company. The same company that forced Mercedes, BMW, and Cadillac to their knees by building a flat out better car for less money than the competition! The same company that built a car that still today is spoken about in hushed tones, and has held back so many new and supposedly more advanced cars! ( The Supra )
#249
06-11-2010, 08:14 PM
Wow we are on the same page, not so much mad at the car itself as we are mad at the company. The same company that forced Mercedes, BMW, and Cadillac to their knees by building a flat out better car for less money than the competition! The same company that built a car that still today is spoken about in hushed tones, and has held back so many new and supposedly more advanced cars! ( The Supra )
#250
06-11-2010, 09:08 PM
Registered User
You win.......the LFA is a freaking debacle and should have never been made! In fact, why don't the mods just close this thread so we can go on with our lives and forget all about this car, and what could have been!
#252
06-11-2010, 10:15 PM
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kirkland
Posts: 2,571
Rep Power: 177 What does this have to do with the LFA, the Z06 is just a car I picked that performed better than the LFA for far less money. I bet I could also rename the thread LFA......worse than GT2 RS performance for 599 GTO money! Or LFA .....a little more than GTR performance for the price of 5!
#254
06-11-2010, 10:32 PM
Lexus has already won several times over...
Define... "competition"
I have a feeling that your ideal "competition" and Lexus's "competition" are vastly different
Here is my questioning or logic from a more free thinking standpoint..
As you stated.. you would buy this car if you ordered an exorbitant amount of exotics in addition to it (had you had "multiple billions" of dollars)
Do you think this car is bought by people who intend to use it as their sole "supercar?"
Do you think the owners of the LFA (or 599 for that matter) will ever use it anywhere near it's potential or even Z06 defined levels?
Last edited by Ducky993; 06-11-2010 at 10:38 PM.