Again were not talking fractionally here, the LFA is fractionally slower than a Z06 and fractionally faster than a GTR cars priced a few classes below I would think. Let me remind you that in this class the 599 GTB offers cache, brand image, amazing looks, and a huge and tangible performance difference. Of course other factors come into play but perceived reliability and interior quality in my humble opinion don't make up for the other things.

Durability is not something that they have appeared to achieve, and with you only being able to lease them initially only time will tell. But again there is only 500 made, do you think these cars will be bought because they can do 200k miles?

And responsive feel, isn't that subjective? Could it not be argued that every single car in its class delivers responsive feel?

 

I'm not forcing anything down anyone's throat. You are the one who said that "all the magazines" said Lexus are crazy for asking this price. That turned out to be false. They don't all say that. In fact, there are quite a few that support Lexus's pricing. You also said the LFA is no faster than a GT3. Again, false.

I think by your silence on the Lexus forums question, you never had any intention to truly understand why someone would (gasp, god forbid!) choose the Lexus over a Ferrari. Do you honestly think Lexus are being greedy with the revenue they stand to gain by selling the LFA?

If you guys can't even afford a Ferrari or LFA (and even that doesn't guarantee you'll get one at MSRP), then why focus so much on price? What's the relevance? I asked you why, if performance/$ of such paramount importance, why don't Enzo owners sell in all of their cars to get Vipers and Corvettes? Why buy a 599 when a ZR1 will beat it for a fraction of the price? Are "car guys" so obsessed with a badge?

 

Fractionally slower on a wet TopGear track than the Z06 in bone dry conditions. You should probably think about that for a second. What do you think would happen to that LFA lap time on a bone dry track?

Describe for me this huge and tangible performance difference.
That's your opinion. Are you buying?


The durability will weigh on the minds of some who have bought Lexus before, so yes, they come to expect that. It's not the only thing, but it's a factor among many.
Again, you're going to have to define "class" and what you mean by that. I already asked you for that answer, yet you continue to miss it. I don't think it can be said that a Corvette offers responsive feel with other cars in its class. Numb steering, yes. Tramlining, yes. Garbage seats, yes. The LFA has been described as feeling as involving and exciting as the Scuderia. That may apply to the GTO, but it's never been said of the 599.

 

Tough to be greedy when you're losing money (on direct sales.)

 

Again your comprehension is at an all time low, you don't have to argue with me about the LFA's monetary value or worth that has already been established. Nor did I say Lexus was being greedy, as this was a costly development program that they will not recoup the money on. I asked you if you personally would buy one over its competition or if you felt it was the best car in the class and you could not even agree that.

 

So let me spell it out for you since you are not getting it.

In my humble opinion the LFA, is an example of a too long development period translating into a car which is behind its competition technologically in some areas. Through engineering by press release, hype, and great marketing Lexus has justified the monetary value of the LFA. I think its interesting that you would be asked to pay more for a car that asks you with its perceived reliability and interior quality to forgo brand legacy, heritage, and performance which is usually the reason why you buy a super car in the first place. I own a Lexus so you can't accuse me of being an American car fanboy.

 

And the ZR1 is lambasted for its interior despite its performance being much better than most cars that cost the same or in its same class. So should the LFA not be compared to its peers in performance because its interior is so good?

 

My question is how do you make a body of carbon fiber and the car weighs in at 3600 lbs????????????????????????????????????

That is a pig. The new camaro weighs that much. Put it on a diet. I am thinking biggest loser. What happened to nimble cars and weight reduction? BTW my fun car weighs in at 2600lbs and w/ close to 450 at the wheels I'd take on that LFA anyday. But then again my car is not carbon fiber or a lexus for that matter. However it does come from the land of Japan.

This car should be considered more of a GT car instead of supercar. Its just where it fits. I think of it more as an Aston, Bently, and so forth. Its definitely not a hardcore supercar, and I think this is what germeezy is trying to say or convey. It just doesn't fit in a category other than the price tag. I think it would be cool if it weighed sub 3000lbs w/ the motor it has and was 100K. Lexus couldn't keep them in showrooms. I doubt I'll ever see one especially at the track.

I wonder if it gives happy endings for the price tag? Oh well I guess I'll never know, and I am good w/ that.

Carry on boys.

BTW 6 speed needs some more smilies. Like the one eating popcorn would be fitting right now.

 

Its a GT car that tries to be a super sports car but in the end performs worse than the Hyper GT car that rules this segment. Give me an R8 V10 and an S8 or the same price throw in a Z06 for a track car!

 

Damn ,this thread is like a sparring match between Guibo and Germeezy1 . Back and forth .

 

I already answered that. Unlike you, I wouldn't buy these cars off of spec sheet stats.
As to "best in class" I already answered that too. It's completely irrelevant. It doesn't have to be best in class. No car has to be best in class. You think a person would have to be nuts to buy an LFA, fine. Well, would a person also have to be nuts to buy a Mercedes C-Class when the 3-Series is long recognized as the best in its class? You can't even tell me which class the LFA is in, LOL. Try to wrap your mind around the idea of "personal preference." Is that somehow not a legit reason to buy a car?

I would also like to hear your explanation for this:
"What I said is based on my opinion and the opinion of automotive writers, what basis do you have that exotic car buyers do not care about performance at all?"
I don't think I ever said exotic car buyers do not care about performance at all. If you could point out where I said that, then I'll correct it. If you can't, then at least admit you're pulling crap out of thin air.

 

Definitely? Are you basing this on germeezy's lack of experience with this car, or the experience of those who have driven it?

As for the weight, the Camaro is closer to 3900 lbs. It also has a very lightweight engine, and has 2 fewer cylinders. No active wing. No dry sump oiling system. No rear-mounted radiators. Separate cooler for the clutch? Maybe, but I doubt it. As to whether it would hold up to 24 hours of the Nordschleife in close to stock form, I doubt it. Come to think of it, the Z8 with its deforming shock tower problem probably wouldn't last either.
The 599 is missing a lot of those items, and weighs 3950 lbs...

Car Magazine theorized on the weight:
"Maybe the superb build quality explains why the Lexus LFA weighs a relatively portly 1480kg."

From Autoweek:
"The suspension was not just developed at the Nürburgring, as seemingly everything is nowadays, but during the Nürburgring 24-hour race. The shocks on the production car are the same ones used in the race. When engineers and drivers noticed some slight chassis flex in the races, Tanahashi-san added front and rear crossbraces connected by a latticelike central brace and two more carbon-fiber braces in the front structure."

 

Guibo you are not getting it. Teh domination doesnt come down to air temp etc...These tests were not done on the same day, conditions etc so you cant use data from different tests to justify an opinion as if the two cars ran against each other under the same conditions.

Im thinking you are not as knowledgable as you try to appear. I can run a Z06, for example, on a 90 degree/high da day and trap 125mph consistantly and get no better. If I run the same car on a much cooler day etc I can pick up a few mph and 10ths... Same car, nothing changed on it. Temp and track surface play a big part in times etc. So if you run the LF-A at a different track, temp vs a test of the BS at a different track day etc the results arent factually comparable. Its a safe bet though that the 127mph car could probably be faster on the same day but its not a guarantee hence I said my opinion.

Magazine racing is worthless. Same day same time etc head to head runs are the only conclusive tests and even then there are variables that could play one car better than the other. For instance turbo car are affected less by DA than NA cars. So if you test both cars same day, and one is turbo and one is NA you can have the turbo car killing the NA car because of the DA. Then you run em both another time with decent da and the NA car wins. So many variables so you cant just assume everything comes down to magazine times.

 

My bad on the laptop gmeezy lol. Here's some reps for you trouble.

 

lol! I like the incorporation of the special carbon fiber into the laptop... Nice touch.