C63 does 0-60 in 3.9 sec!! C&D
#31
10-30-2007, 11:15 AM
You are wrong in this instance. Since you are an mbworld member you should be able to poke around their forum for the answers. Kleemann actual vs. dyno numbers aside, their mods propel the fastest cars with their k4 55's reaching the mid to low 11's. I don't see how they are not making their claimed power when the dyno shows it and as does the 1/4 mile trap speed. What type of kleemann modded car did you have? Are the different numbers we are seeing naturally aspirated kleemann mods vs. their forced induction mods?
Evosport has products for the 63's out. Their dyno for the ML63 with powerchip software shows a 24 wheel hp gain, through the stock exhaust and intake. 24 @ the wheels is already over half way there to 550 without any breathing mods, exhaust or intake.
This motor is high strung, but not as much as the BMW v10 and if the aftermarket can get 80 hp on a 100 hp per liter motor naturally aspirated they will be able to do it for the 6.3 liter v8. I remember when the e46 m3 first came out and I read these same type of posts about the S54 6 cylinder not being able to gain any more power. Look at the power the aftermarket is getting out of that higher compression, higher revving, smaller motor in comparison to the 63.
550 hp has ALREADY been reached! 580 will come and go. The car has yet to even hit the streets. I want to post a dyno but mbworld is having a database error right now (just my luck). Renntech's site on the other hand is working and their stage 2 package for the 63 shows a 50 hp gain @ the crank consisting of software, mufflers, and headers. Your basic bolt ons, I see ABSOLUTELY no reason to believe this motor can't reach 550 hp and beyond.
Even motors as stressed as the one in the 996 GT3 have been able to pick up 25 @ the wheels with software and exhaust tuning as some member have shown on 6speed.
I guess we will agree to disagree, but I think we can agree that the C63 leaves more power on the table for the tuners than the e63, s63, or cl63.
Evosport has products for the 63's out. Their dyno for the ML63 with powerchip software shows a 24 wheel hp gain, through the stock exhaust and intake. 24 @ the wheels is already over half way there to 550 without any breathing mods, exhaust or intake.
This motor is high strung, but not as much as the BMW v10 and if the aftermarket can get 80 hp on a 100 hp per liter motor naturally aspirated they will be able to do it for the 6.3 liter v8. I remember when the e46 m3 first came out and I read these same type of posts about the S54 6 cylinder not being able to gain any more power. Look at the power the aftermarket is getting out of that higher compression, higher revving, smaller motor in comparison to the 63.
550 hp has ALREADY been reached! 580 will come and go. The car has yet to even hit the streets. I want to post a dyno but mbworld is having a database error right now (just my luck). Renntech's site on the other hand is working and their stage 2 package for the 63 shows a 50 hp gain @ the crank consisting of software, mufflers, and headers. Your basic bolt ons, I see ABSOLUTELY no reason to believe this motor can't reach 550 hp and beyond.
Even motors as stressed as the one in the 996 GT3 have been able to pick up 25 @ the wheels with software and exhaust tuning as some member have shown on 6speed.
I guess we will agree to disagree, but I think we can agree that the C63 leaves more power on the table for the tuners than the e63, s63, or cl63.
The K4 upgrades on kompressor cars ae great kits. However, find me a dyno sheet that supports claims of 640 HP.
The 63 engines are great engines but are not mod friendly. I've seen 550 HP claims from Renntech and Brabus but no proof at the track or on the dyno yet. I'm skeptical until I see proof.
You helped make my point by bringing up the M3. Most high HP M3's have upgraded internals which are very expensive. M3's do not respnd very well to bolt ons. 11:1+ compression and forced induction are not very good friends.
You will not see a 63 engine making over 450 whp with simple bolt ons. FI is an entirely different story.
#32
10-30-2007, 02:25 PM
The NA 55 motors are making 420 whp with the Kleemann supercharger. This is about 500 HP to the crank far below Kleemann's old claims of 600+HP. Take a look at their website. They've reduced their claims to 540 HP which is about right. My E55 and G55 made far less than Kleemann claims at the time but I was told to expect this by the folks in Denver.
The K4 upgrades on kompressor cars ae great kits. However, find me a dyno sheet that supports claims of 640 HP.
The 63 engines are great engines but are not mod friendly. I've seen 550 HP claims from Renntech and Brabus but no proof at the track or on the dyno yet. I'm skeptical until I see proof.
You helped make my point by bringing up the M3. Most high HP M3's have upgraded internals which are very expensive. M3's do not respnd very well to bolt ons. 11:1+ compression and forced induction are not very good friends.
You will not see a 63 engine making over 450 whp with simple bolt ons. FI is an entirely different story.
The K4 upgrades on kompressor cars ae great kits. However, find me a dyno sheet that supports claims of 640 HP.
The 63 engines are great engines but are not mod friendly. I've seen 550 HP claims from Renntech and Brabus but no proof at the track or on the dyno yet. I'm skeptical until I see proof.
You helped make my point by bringing up the M3. Most high HP M3's have upgraded internals which are very expensive. M3's do not respnd very well to bolt ons. 11:1+ compression and forced induction are not very good friends.
You will not see a 63 engine making over 450 whp with simple bolt ons. FI is an entirely different story.
#33
10-30-2007, 03:15 PM
Actually, claiming that there hasen't been a single blown M3 motor is pure assumption.
#34
10-30-2007, 03:59 PM
I was one of the first to go through it and have a FI M3
now its much higher limits but I talk to tons of people still about their build ups, kits and so on, of course people/companies can keep it quiet but I haven't seen a single owner even running nitrous and FI blow their motor! Unlike the vqg35 scene I was also in years ago where people were blowing motors left and right, he'll even their built motors several times.
#36
10-30-2007, 06:50 PM
I know this board is about mods etc but isn't the stock HP enough for most of us. Sure I would put on an exhaust to improve the sound and do some other things but isn't 0-60 in 3.9 secs crazy enough?
Just my .02. Can't wait to see and get my hands on one. I am considering trading/selling the 997S for one.
Just my .02. Can't wait to see and get my hands on one. I am considering trading/selling the 997S for one.
#37
10-30-2007, 08:21 PM
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Lo Barnechea & Viña del Mar
Age: 52
Posts: 1,036
Rep Power: 64 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKEGFUWBekA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAaXRGZPycU
AWESOME......!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAaXRGZPycU
AWESOME......!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Pierre996TT; 10-30-2007 at 08:42 PM.
#38
10-30-2007, 08:30 PM
I know this board is about mods etc but isn't the stock HP enough for most of us. Sure I would put on an exhaust to improve the sound and do some other things but isn't 0-60 in 3.9 secs crazy enough?
Just my .02. Can't wait to see and get my hands on one. I am considering trading/selling the 997S for one.
Just my .02. Can't wait to see and get my hands on one. I am considering trading/selling the 997S for one.
#40
10-30-2007, 11:57 PM
The NA 55 motors are making 420 whp with the Kleemann supercharger. This is about 500 HP to the crank far below Kleemann's old claims of 600+HP. Take a look at their website. They've reduced their claims to 540 HP which is about right. My E55 and G55 made far less than Kleemann claims at the time but I was told to expect this by the folks in Denver.
The K4 upgrades on kompressor cars ae great kits. However, find me a dyno sheet that supports claims of 640 HP.
The 63 engines are great engines but are not mod friendly. I've seen 550 HP claims from Renntech and Brabus but no proof at the track or on the dyno yet. I'm skeptical until I see proof.
You helped make my point by bringing up the M3. Most high HP M3's have upgraded internals which are very expensive. M3's do not respnd very well to bolt ons. 11:1+ compression and forced induction are not very good friends.
You will not see a 63 engine making over 450 whp with simple bolt ons. FI is an entirely different story.
The K4 upgrades on kompressor cars ae great kits. However, find me a dyno sheet that supports claims of 640 HP.
The 63 engines are great engines but are not mod friendly. I've seen 550 HP claims from Renntech and Brabus but no proof at the track or on the dyno yet. I'm skeptical until I see proof.
You helped make my point by bringing up the M3. Most high HP M3's have upgraded internals which are very expensive. M3's do not respnd very well to bolt ons. 11:1+ compression and forced induction are not very good friends.
You will not see a 63 engine making over 450 whp with simple bolt ons. FI is an entirely different story.
www.dragtimes.com has plenty of trapspeeds and dynos for kleemann cars. 540 @ the wheels seems to be right there if not slightly over the claimed hp for k4.
Either way, regardless of how kleemann in particular stacks up, once again 550 hp has already been reached with the 63. You say renntech can't be believed, and kleemann can't be believed, I think the real issue is that you just don't want to believe it.
The motor is new, the C63 has yet to hit the streets, and further bolt ons will come. If the M5 v10 can gain power, I see no reason why a larger motor won't. I guess I will come back to this thread in the future, its fairly obvious for anyone who has paid any attention to the aftermaket landscape over the past 8 years that 550-580 hp is not unrealistic whatsoever and just the beginning. Hell, even the carrera S can gain 50 hp NA.
Last edited by CURI0; 10-31-2007 at 12:04 AM.
#41
10-31-2007, 12:46 AM
If anyone on here thinks 550-580hp is inpossible, they are one of the two: 1) Dumb 2) don't konw much about the 63 motor. A stock E63 making 507hp. If you add free-flowing catback, delete the catalytic converter and add some stright pipes, intake, and tune...........how on earth can you say that the 63 wont get 550-580? You mean to tell me those 4 mods won't get you atleast 40hp? If so you're NUTS! And once i get my C63 i will prove you wrong 
#42
10-31-2007, 08:02 AM
If anyone on here thinks 550-580hp is inpossible, they are one of the two: 1) Dumb 2) don't konw much about the 63 motor. A stock E63 making 507hp. If you add free-flowing catback, delete the catalytic converter and add some stright pipes, intake, and tune...........how on earth can you say that the 63 wont get 550-580? You mean to tell me those 4 mods won't get you atleast 40hp? If so you're NUTS! And once i get my C63 i will prove you wrong
I actually know a fair amount about the 63 engine which is why I'll be surprised when I see the first bolt-on 580 HP C63. Please fell free to prove me wrong.
#43
10-31-2007, 08:18 AM
I am not sure how I made your point for you, as you are incorrect regarding the state of E46 m3 tuning. Most forced induction M3's are on STOCK internals, not built. The M3 has reached 600 wheel horsepower with forced induction on stock internals. High compression isn't as mod unfriendly as is popularly tossed around, tuning is the key. If a car has low compression pistons and forced indcuction but shoddy tuning with a lean a/f ratio it can blow more easily than high compression with forced induction. In case you don't believe me about the power the E46 M3 is making, check out www.horsepowerfreaks.com for a 6xx rwhp dyno of their M3 turbo kit. They also gain 30 + rwhp on an NA m3 as well, with ECU tuning alone. I had an E46 M3, they respond just fine to mods, don't know what led you to the conclusion that they do not.
www.dragtimes.com has plenty of trapspeeds and dynos for kleemann cars. 540 @ the wheels seems to be right there if not slightly over the claimed hp for k4.
Either way, regardless of how kleemann in particular stacks up, once again 550 hp has already been reached with the 63. You say renntech can't be believed, and kleemann can't be believed, I think the real issue is that you just don't want to believe it.
The motor is new, the C63 has yet to hit the streets, and further bolt ons will come. If the M5 v10 can gain power, I see no reason why a larger motor won't. I guess I will come back to this thread in the future, its fairly obvious for anyone who has paid any attention to the aftermaket landscape over the past 8 years that 550-580 hp is not unrealistic whatsoever and just the beginning. Hell, even the carrera S can gain 50 hp NA.
www.dragtimes.com has plenty of trapspeeds and dynos for kleemann cars. 540 @ the wheels seems to be right there if not slightly over the claimed hp for k4.
Either way, regardless of how kleemann in particular stacks up, once again 550 hp has already been reached with the 63. You say renntech can't be believed, and kleemann can't be believed, I think the real issue is that you just don't want to believe it.
The motor is new, the C63 has yet to hit the streets, and further bolt ons will come. If the M5 v10 can gain power, I see no reason why a larger motor won't. I guess I will come back to this thread in the future, its fairly obvious for anyone who has paid any attention to the aftermaket landscape over the past 8 years that 550-580 hp is not unrealistic whatsoever and just the beginning. Hell, even the carrera S can gain 50 hp NA.
Anyone can supercharge a high compression engine. It's done all of the time. However, have you ever noticed that the really reputable tuners are hesitant to do it. Including Kleemann, Lingenfelter, and Heffner. There's a reason for this.
You keep discussing 40-50 HP gains which is very doable. However, you will not see a 130 HP gain with bolt ons.
My experience with tuners is substantial. I actually consider several of them to be friends. I've owned numerous tuner cars:
Callaway Corvette
Lingenfelter Escalade
Lingenfelter twin turbo Corvette
Kleemann E55
Kleemann G55
800 HP twin charged Evolution (Kleemann supercharger w/ a GT42 turbo)
Heffner Viper (Still have)
Evoms GT700 Porsche GT2 (Still have)
Now please show me the dyno sheets of the 640 HP K4 cars and the 580 HP 63 cars. I can't find any.
BTW, Kleemann in Colorado can be believed as they told me that the numbers on the website (since changed) are not realistic. They earned my trust and respect by being honest and setting realistic expectations which is why I was pleased with both of my Kleemann cars even though they fell short of claims.
#45
10-31-2007, 10:55 AM
I'm guess I'm dumb. The C63 has 450 HP stock. My math skills must be inferior to yours but I show that it would take a 130 HP gain to make 580 HP.
I actually know a fair amount about the 63 engine which is why I'll be surprised when I see the first bolt-on 580 HP C63. Please fell free to prove me wrong.
I actually know a fair amount about the 63 engine which is why I'll be surprised when I see the first bolt-on 580 HP C63. Please fell free to prove me wrong.
You don't get the point. The C63 with JUST TUNE can make 507, and i konw that becuase look at the specs of the E63 which has the same engine. So 40hp out of stock motor is NOT hard. I have a VQ35 which are a biiitch to mod, and i got 40hp out of that........so i have no doubt that 40hp out of the AMG motor won't be a problem my friend.