There's lots of talk about how fast the GTR might run the 'Ring and how "inexpensive" the car is in relationship to a 911 etc... But this may not really matter to those of us who are interested in buying the GTR at the so called "inexpensive price".

Anyone paid attention to the "fine print" as far as how many GTR's are being made? Nissan says there are just 12 engineers who will build the GTR engine, bottlenecking production and resulting in a limit of about 2x Audi R8 production (1000/mo vs. 500 mo) for worldwide consumption. If the R8 is any indication (700 units/year for the U.S.), we could be looking at 1300-1500 GTR's a year for the U.S.

Also like the R8, Nissan will only supply GTR's to certain of its dealerships who step up to pay $50k (in the R8's case: ~$100k) to be outfitted to service the GTR.

So if a Nissan dealer has to pay $50k just to be able to sell the GTR, and they are only going to get a limited number of GTR's a year (the dealers I've spoken to think they'll get 2-3/year)... Where do you think that $50k is going to go to? According to one dealer I spoke with, right into the dealer mark-up over MSRP on the GTR, for the consumer to pay.

It's amazing how quick an $80k car can suddenly become a $100k car.

Once you're into 6-figures and 1-2 year waiting lists.. Suddenly a whole lot more cars become more interesting, especially with classier looks and a heck of a stronger name and dealer network than "Nissan".

If I'm missing something, please let me know!

 

The US GT-R allotment is going to be about 200 per month.

Will be difficult obtaining one to say the least. (without markup)

 

Just think of when the 350z first hit the market.. it was supposed to be one of the best sports cars for the $ right along side the z06.. the base was mid 20's and i paid mid 40's for mine.. was it worth for me at the time? yes.. but could i get the same car for 10k less a yr later?? yes.

 

I like the fact that it's unique, and the performance is awesome. But there's no way you'll find me in the service line waiting because there are 3 Sentras in front of me. Nothing against lesser cars, we all started there, but you guys know what I mean.

 

I don't think this car will be a dissapointment, but I think some of the "rawness" of previous Skylines won't be there.

 

the name kills the coolness of the car.

 

i wonder if its faster then the R34 Z-Tuned

 

Funny you should post this.....

I just visited my local Nissan dealer today to ask about the GTR...i was told they are expecting 3 in the first year its available. The first car will go right on EBAY the GM said for the higher bidder...his exact words, "dudes out in Cali will pay like 100 grand for this car on EBAY"

The 2nd car they will get is for the owner of hte dealership....and the 3rd is going to be (his words again) "up for grabs" to whoever wants it most AKA highest bidder.

So it looks like im **** outta luck

 

Interesting, makes sense.

 

You make some decent points but your original post contains some misinformation. Below is the R8 allocations for the US. As you can see, there will be far less R8's available in the US than the GTR.



If your figures are correct about the production numbers of the GTR (1300-1500 per yr) then it puts the GTR production numbers at 10-15 times that of the R8. Also the cost to the dealer for the R8 is around $150k which is 3X that of the GTR.

Another significant difference between the two vehicles is that an Audi "supercar/sportscar/whatever" carries a significant amount of cachet that a Nissan GTR simply can never achieve. I love the GTR and may even own one in a few years but the premium that people will pay for an Audi is far greater than that of a Nissan. I acknowledge that the GTR has a legendary cult following, but the initial premiums that GTR drivers will have to face is no different than many other new products introduced in the past few years.

 

I think the R8 is over priced for what you get. Initially, the hype is there. but once u start get used to the styling, it gets boring fast. it will never be a classic like ferrari or even the direct competitor a 997S (not to mention it cost as much as a Turbo)
if it was priced at around what a 997S or a tad cheaper, then i would consider it.
after seeing the car in person, all i feel the R8 is a larger TT with a V8.

the GTR however is priced much more aggressively then the R8, and also the performance it deliver and the history behind the legendary GTR badge is already worth it. the only disappointment would be the modability of the car. we really dont know if the DSG box or the VR38DETT can handle the power most RB26 GTR can do, ie 800+
one of the biggest disappointment would be the inclusion of 20" tires. the stock RE070R might already be the best performance tires in the 20" range. tracking the new GTR might not be the greatest idea. especially when tires like A048R only comes in 18"

a GTR should never be kept stock.

 

Actually, no, it would be your figures that are misinformation .

First, I specifically said *Worldwide* Production, and wherever you got your info seems closer to U.S.-only numbers.

But even then, using U.S. numbers, the 2X still works out. The R8 didn't start getting delivered in the U.S. until approximately September of this year. Therefore, even if your figure of 150 R8's for 2008 was correct (which it isn't -- the correct # is 200), it would make sense to extrapolate to 450 (150 for 4 months, x 3 = 1 year). 450/yr would put my estimate at 2.89x - 3.33x GTR's for every R8, not 10x - 15x.

Audi had said to its dealers that there would be approximately 200 R8's delivered this year, and 700-800 next year. 700 (full year) works out to approximately 2x GTR's to R8 -- just like I said previously.

On a side-note, U.S. sales to date according to Audi are 104 cars (based on 2 months of sales). R8 sales started in September. http://media.audiusa.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=9955

The forecast of 700-800 units for the U.S. next year seems to be holding so far. Here's one of many references out there -- "Audi Scratches the Exotic Itch with Super R8", Jim Mateja, Chicago Tribune, Aug 19 2007:

The reason for this car is to take Audi to the next level with a superexotic sports car and superexclusive image car," said Patrick Lins, product manager for the R8. "We've had a successful history of racing at Le Mans and Sebring, but we didn't have a race car for people to buy.

"With this car we're saying we're serious about a superexotic, high-end sports car whose DNA is exclusivity. In 2007 we'll sell only 200 2008 models in the U.S.," and 800 to 1,000 a year after that, Lins said."

$150K is 2x the cost of the GTR (~$75k), not 3x. I'm sensing a pattern here

Doesn't matter anyways, since your price for the R8 is also incorrect. Where did you get that the cost of an R8 for a dealer is $150k? A consumer can't even spec an R8 out past the $130k's (MSRP)!

The MSRP for a base-level R8 is $109,000 + $2k for the manditory "option" of Audi Navigation System Plus. Price does not include destination & gas guzzler charges, of course. Fully loaded with all remaining options, the MSRP comes to ~$134k. That's the retail price the customer pays (assuming no price gouging ), the dealer cost is noticeably less.

If you'd like I can email you the 2008 official Audi Order Guide, I got it when it was time to place my order for my R8.

For what it's worth, I've since heard information from Nissan dealers that makes me think there will be more than 1500 GTR's delivered to the U.S. in a full-year, but no one knows for sure yet.

In any case, everything you mentioned in your post missed the point of my original message entirely -- that the low units for a hand-built R8 has made buying one quite frustrating for most of those who are interested, and that it's too bad the GTR is so far following a similar start due to the low production numbers, a requirement by Nissan that dealers invest $50k in tools/training (which will get passed on to the consumer), as well as a dealer network that so far hasn't been given any restrictions on marking up prices on the car significantly. At least with Audi, most of us with R8 orders through dealers are only paying MSRP on the car thanks to Audi corporate frowning on Audi dealers who attempt to mark up the price for a new R8.

 

UPDATE.....

Nissan will be overseeing every car sold so no price gouging on the new GT-R. They will not allow "excessive" mark-up.

http://2009gtr.blogspot.com/2008/02/...ace-as-it.html

 

AMSMIKE: Thanks for the update, that's really good to hear! There's at least some hope then that these cars will sell at MSRP in spite of the low production #'s.

 

Dealers will find a way to make as much off this car as possible, especially if it is putting cash into dealers pockets, there is nothing Nissan can do.

if the demand is there for this car, I can see the price jumping over the $100K mark in the US (after all thats what the Europeans will be paying)