*****please re-read*****
Originally Posted by airtrackk
So i should not believe the 7:38 (or mid 30's per hvs) and the fact that the GTR beat a ZR1/GT3 because it should not have been able to based on "top speed" and "others not being able to achieve the same time"


As you can see i was not referring to the 7:26 ring time at all, even though using the "top speed" to support the ringer theory looks like it is pretty well de-bunked by now, but you selectively believe and read stuff so i know that does not matter to you.

My comments were merely an acknowledgment on my part that i was personally wrong in believing that under no circumstances a GTR would be able to beat a 997tt let alone a ZR1 or a GT3. Sometimes you just gotta man up.

Hvs clearly stated that he felt that there was a bit more time he could get out of the GTR, lets just say 7:35 (pretty conservative i would say) think about that for a second, even 7:35 puts GTR ahead of several supercars costing 3-4 times it's price. An fat overweight Suv with 480hp should never ever beat supercars period......right?


supertest
997 GT2 on Sport Cups and PCCBs; 7:33
997 Turbo on Sport Cups and PCCBs: 7:54
997 s2, GT3 on Sport Cups and PCCBs: 7:40
C6 Z06 on GEF1s: 7:49
GT-R on Dunlop SP Sport 600s: 7:38 (or 7:35 if you care)

and

autobild sportcar
ZR1 1:31.14
GTR 1:30.95

and

auto zeitung
GT-R 1:36.13
GT3 1:36.84

and

one lap
1: Nissan GT-R
2: Porsche 996 GT2

and

auto motor
GT-R (on Dunlops) - 7:47
Turbo (on Pilot Sports) - 8:03

and

targa tasmania
1: GTR - 10:35
2: Gallardo - 16:33

and

car of the year
EVO
CAR
AUTOMOBILE
MOTOR TREND

But none of this matters right?
these tests are all wrong and reviews are biased and all the car of the year awards are biased and ringers and tailwinds and secret boost control buttons and aliens and giraffes and top speed in
DIFFRENT parts of the track and all of them are ringers and top speed and ringers and secret extra turbos and jet packs and comcast secret blazing poweboost and ringers and on and on and on and on and on..............................

you know what....here is a little secret...you are right.....they are all ringers......damn Nissan

 

I've already shown that the GT-R used in this test was significantly slower than the 911 turbo HVS tested.

In fact it was 0.3s slower to 100km/h, 0.5s slower to 200km/h and 6km/h slower than the 911 turbo at Dottinger Hohe. Furthermore the 911 turbo was fully sport optioned with Porsche Ceramic brakes, Pilot Sport Cups and is 100kg lighter than the GT-R to start with.

Yet the GT-R was a staggering sixteen seconds faster than the 911 turbo at the end of the lap! Sixteen seconds faster !!!!!

This result has spread it's cheeks and taken a healthy dump on both Monaro and HC's p/w ratio theory. This result is absolute and undeniable evidence that the p/w ratio is all that matters angle is fundamentally flawed. It goes without saying then that the GT-R has NOTHING to gain (and in fact more to lose) by upping power levels.

I just hope that HC and Mo take the time to absorb the significance of this incredible event.

 

Dale Lomas, chief instructor for 'Ring driving school RSRNurburg, wrote this in October of last year:
"There's been an awful lot of controversy over Nissan's laptime claim for the GTR. I for one have had to sit and listen to a couple of different Nürburgring pros explain at length why the time simply isn't possible for a road car. They say the Porsche GT3 and GT2 is a true measure of a road-legal sports car and the GTR simply can't beat it on street tyres because it's too heavy. They say this car must have slicks and racing brakes.
This video should quell 90%* of doubts. It shows some of the most comfortably aggressive driving I've ever seen. Seeing this level of attack is always impressive, but on the Nordschleife? Amazing.
[7:29 video]
Look at the understeer, listen to they tyre howl, this is a car on the ragged edge. The driver pushes it early into every corner and leans on the loud pedal in a way that would send any normal performance car careering into the barrier.
Look at the speed into flugplatz and the ensuing oversteer. The little jump INSIDE Schwedenkreuz. The acceleration into Ex-Muehle. The entry into Karussell...
I think it's genuine."

Lomas has driven many, many laps on the 'Ring (sort of have to for the job he's got). He's also a contributing editor to Performance Car Magazine (which voted the GT-R its Car of the Year).

 

Spread its cheeks?

Heavy is a smart guy. He's already admitted the GTR is legit. Monaro on the other hand is still trying to save face. If that's even possible at this point.

 

Why would he want to save a face like that?

 

The truth is that Nissan fitted an advanced AI chip that detects when it is up against a Porsche, in much the same way that a T800 detects when John Connor is around. Upon detection, it switches to termination protocol.

 

You got your wires mixed up by not reading carefully, the PDK 997 S was tested on Sport Cups while the Manual was tested on PS2's hence the difference in time, of which the tires make up most of it.

Were are you getting your info from? A TT weighs 3500+ and a GT-R 3800+ that eliminates the possiblilty of almost 450 lbs difference. Not to mention a Tiptronic TT weighs almost 3700 lbs.

AMuS tested a turbo on non production tires, that don't come on any Porsche (that I know of) and Sport Auto didn't bother to finish taping the lap, and the pure delta of difference between a TT on sport cups on a TT on Michelin Pilots doesn't make any sense dont ya think?

 

Your theory may not be that far fetched lol. It does sense when you are at a racetrack and removes the speed limiter so its possible it raises boost whenever it senses German Frogs on the road

Seriously though its a sad fact that MFG's are known to send ringers to mag tests, so naturally with a car like the GTR this fact seems to ring true since no one else has gotten close to the factory times at the Ring. I was one of the doubters for quite awhile because the specs dont make traditional sense with the results we are seeing.

But all these tests using different GTR's on different continents all have the GTR whipping the Porsche TT and GT3. Sometimes easily as well. Ive seen 2 sec in some head to heads between the two. And these are on much much shorter tracks than the Ring. Hence its logical to conclude that if a Porsche TT can do a 7:40 a GTR can do a whole lot better on such a long track if it already capable of beating a TT by over 2 secs on a short track. Lots of variables involved so this is not a blanket statement but just a statement based on pure logic and probablity. Couple that with a Factory driver that knows the GTR more intimately than his wife/girlfriend and we have a real logical chance of one hitting a 7:29 etc imho.

 

The Nissan GTR and Porsche GT3 has been trading blows, each has gotten points over the other, the GT3 has also won its fare share of races against the GTR. A time of 7:38 to 7:50 is fitting for the GTR but not 7:26, a 7:26 would have placed it into another totally different bunch of players.


Maybe the programming isnt as advanced as that but Car and Driver did point out that the original car they drove must have had a little programming help from Nissan.



I dont need you interpreting Heavy's thoughts and opinions.

Attn: HEAVYCHEVY
Q: Do you think Nissan achieved the 7:26 and 7:27 time using a stock standard base model GTR with 480hp and some 3800lbs in weight?

[quote]Nurburgring Supertest
GT-R : 7:38
GT3: 7:40

Laguna Seca
GT-R : 1:39.62
GT3: 1:39.5

Hockenheim Short
GT-R : 1:10.7
GT3 : 1:10.4

Auto zeitung
GT-R 1:36.13
GT3 1:36.84

Targa Tasmania
You failed to mention that the lead Lambo and Porsche GT2 crashed out, handling the GTR the win. When the three did manage to finish the race this is what happened.

Targa Tasmania – Temco Prologue
MODERN
1. Jim Richards (VIC), Barry Oliver, (TAS), 2008 Porsche 911 GT2
2. Matt Close (VIC), Cameron Reeves (QLD), 2000 Porsche 911 Turbo, +1.33s
3. Jason White (TAS), John White (TAS), 2007 Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera, +2.21s
4. Steve Jones (WA), Ruari Soutar-Dawson, 2007 Nissan GTR, +3.47s
5. Kevin Weeks (SA), Rebecca Crunkhorn (SA), 2007 Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera, +3.54s
6. Dean Herridge (WA), Glen Weston (QLD), 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STI, +3.55s

One lap
1: Nissan GT-R
2: Porsche 996 GT2

Where is the Porsche 997 GT2?

 

You thought that the GTR could do a 7:26 time stock.........at the moment ALL TIMES EXCEPT FOR SPORT AUTO HAS BEEN IN THE 7:50'S. Sport Auto has the best time of 7:38 which is in line with the GT3. So really unless someone apart from Nissan runs the GTR at anywhere remotely close to 7:26 then you really have no credibility to begin with.

I think your a little lost and confused, again, HvS ran the 7:38 time that im talking about. PLEASE FIND a passage in the Sport Auto review where HvS states that the GTR can go a few more seconds faster.

at 0:56
"I think they actually messed around with the softwares to get the best power and best launch possible out of the car......the fact is that was going to be a really really good running car" - Car and Driver.

I have no problems with engineers changing features of the car that the car came standard with and that was meant to be adjusted. The ACR had these features as stock. The GTR is a different story.

Considering the specs of the car is an indication that the CTS-V is in the right place, its main competition were also in the same ball park. Name me another stock car in the 7:20's that has power in the 400 region and weigh 3800lbs. Those mid engined exotics your talking about (that were driven to the max) are in the 7:20 region, get your facts straight.



EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

(Stock full odied cars only) certain tracks suit smaller cars that are very nimble, certain tracks suit cars with allot of power. One of these power tracks is the Nurburgring. As CH has said before, the GTR simply just doesnt have enough power to compete against super exotics in the 7:20's area.


COME ON ANSWER ME THIS!!!!!!!

Out of all the STOCK cars that has achieved 7:20's, how many of these have 600 or more horse power? Why is this?

COME ON!!!!!!!!!

 

Different magazine, different day, different driver and it was the S1 GT3. The results are not remotely comparable.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track16.html

 

Not getting in this fight at all but just looked at the OLA results. In all the years Ive been following it this is the lightest field Ive ever seen. Non of the heavy hitters were there. No Supras, ACR or Vipers from the usual killers, No big dog Z06's, Davia and his constant winning Porsche, Ron Adee with his crazy cars etc. Im disappointed in this years turnout. This was a light field and the GTR cleaned up. Congrats. This doesnt prove or disprove anything imho.

 

yup based on monaros logic GTR has not even won any races yet, it's just that the other cars lost for one reason or the other, so that victory does not really count for the GTR......denial is a wonderful thing

Monaro i really like your thinking, actually i'll try using that from now in my life on everything

Sports - my team did not loose it's just they did not score as many points as your team....that ain't a loss, it's a reverse win
Plus, given diffrent set of circumstances i know my team would have scored more points
And you guys cheated because you have never scored these many points before, this is your first time, you guys must be using steroids.....cheaters cheaters cheaters

Blackjack - Yo dealer, what the hell? you know i did not loose that hand, you know if only i would have not busted i would have won this hand, gimme my money back, you cheater

I'll name this the MonaroWin method....i may even patent it!!!!!

You suckers will see me on TV selling the MonaroWin!!!!!

"With MonaroWin you too can win at everything in life, there are thousands of uses for MonaroWin"

"Buy now, for only $19.99 Win in life, 100% win at everything guarantee"

 

Do you have a source for this? Hopefully, it will be more substantial than your source for Nissan's press release, saying the GT-R hit 290 kph twice.
Porsche released these numbers to general automotive media extolling the virtues of the PDK. Wouldn't it be misleading if the PDK car had cups while the manual didn't?


Sport Auto supertests
GT-R: 1778kg
997TT: 1581 kg
That's right, heavy. A 197kg-heavier GT-R beat a Turbo on ceramics and Pilot Sports [Edit: Cups] by 16 seconds on the 'Ring.


The tires for the Porsche listed in the AMuS test are Pilot Sports, same as they listed for the Turbo when they tested it back in 2006. And then again, against some tuned Turbos. And then again, in a comparo with the Z06, Gallardo, and M6.
What does not bothering to finish a taping mean?
And what is that pure delta?

 

I thought it was 7:27, on optional Spec-V wheels. 7:29 is the benchmark time for a stock GT-R.

Csere is talking about 1 GT-R. Were they all tuned up by Nissan? How do you explain the GT-R that was slower from a roll than E46 M3's (343 hp vs 480!) beating the Z06 and outcornering even the ACR in some sections?


I'm going to use your logic for a moment...
Cars in the 7:50's
Murcielago (319 hp/tonne) - 7:50
Ford GT (344 hp/tonne) - 7:52
Gallardo LP560 (353 hp/tonne) - 7:52
Porsche 997 Turbo (304 hp/tonne) - 7:54
CLK DTM AMG - (345 hp/tonne) - 7:57
CTS-V - (286 hp/tonne) - 7:59

M5 (271 hp/tonne) - 8:13
Is 8:13 in the same ballpark as 7:59? I haven't seen a time yet for the RS6 and E63 AMG, but I wouldn't expect much better than the M5. You've got to be kidding if you think the CTS-V will stay within 10 seconds of the GT-R at the 'Ring. The GT-R was already over 8 seconds faster than the CTS-V at VIR, not exactly a slow track, and it hit higher peak speeds at every point measured than the CTS-V.


"EXACTLY!!!!!!!!"...what? You've got to be kidding if you think the Focus RS stands a chance against the GT-R on the 'Ring. Is that what you're saying, monaro? It sure sounds like it.
CH was a lot slower in many corners and through the fast Fuchsrohre than HvS. It's pretty obvious that CH was far, far below the GT-R's potential. The 'Ring has plenty of high-speed, sweeping sections that favor the GT-R. It also deals better with bumps. Car, DR, and Evo all say the GT-R prefers higher-speed corners. This was already proven in R&T's multiple track comparo, and yet again in the latest test where the GT-R beat the GT3 on the Contidrom (GT3 faster in tighter sections, GT-R faster in the fastest sections).


A lot of them do, but some don't. GT-R is one. GT2 is another (with traffic). THE KOENISEGG CCX WAS A STOCK SUPERCAR WITH 900 HP, YET IT WAS ONLY A 7:34!!!!!
Some of these cars you're referring to make 600 hp in a controlled engine dyno room, corrected for atmospheric conditions. But that doesn't mean they are making 600 hp at the NRing's base elevation of about 600m...