I totally agree.






If your referring to the Jim Richards crash........well some dirt and gravel was chucked up by another car or whoever in the middle of the turn. Its a bit like an oil oil being spilled by the car your following, its very hard to avoid, very hard to predict, and very hard to pub blame. Its just bad luck and a racing incident.

ALSO I DO NOT APPRECIATE ALL THESE ATTACKS ON ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

IM OK WITH PEOPLE ARGUING AGAINST MY OPINIONS BUT THIS ATTACK IS JUST TOO PERSONAL AND TOO FAR OUT OF LINE!!!!!!!!!!


I agree with this also.

Hang on HvS drove a 2010 GTR? have they even released that in Germany yet or are they still selling the 2009 model?

 

Apparently everything I said was so untrue you moronic fanboi's made it a point to personally insult me, unsubscribing from this thread. Where are the mods when you need them?

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675 point(s) total Latest Reputation Received ThreadDateCommentBase GT-R lobs 7:38... 06-21-2009 04:39 AMi agree gtr should be compared to zo6 or 997tt..good pointBase GT-R lobs 7:38... 06-21-2009 02:52 AMremind me again why it seems the only thing you do on this board is **** on the GT-R? In the GT-R forum, no less. If you don't like the car - it's cool but you seem to go out of your way to post negatively. Not enough action in American Muscle?Base GT-R lobs 7:38... 06-21-2009 02:22 AMWhere's your proof? Moron!Base GT-R lobs 7:38... 06-15-2009 02:40 PMthank you for all your insight....porsche/GM community appreciates itbase gt-r 7:27 @ 'ring... 06-11-2009 10:52 AMi really don't understand why you keep posting. everyone knows you hate nissan. stfu already. it's not as if you're adding anything new to the conversation or have any real firsthand knowledge of the car. please.

 

CGT: HvS drove it twice around the 'Ring. The first time was for the original supertest. Track conditions were wet, so he backed off. Only a time "< 7:40" was given in that test. He came back and lapped some more to get the time we see now. It has also not yet been verified in this thread whether Rohrl's time was done on a closed track; Porsche's normal practice seems to be to give out lap times while running in traffic during development, not on a coursed course trying to set a lap record.
GT2: How many Porsche 911's do you think HvS has supertested during his career? Rohrl's time in the GT2 (7:29) was also done in traffic while passing numerous cars, some which did not even see him until he passed. Do you think it totally impossible that a GT2 could acheive a 7:25 with Rohrl driving on a closed track?

Aren't the Z06 tires especially made for that car? The performance learning curve between the Z06 and C6 (which he's driven before) shouldn't be that great an issue, accounting for a 25 km/h discrepancy on the straight between HvS and GM's claim.

Because a quarter mile run is the same thing as running Doettinger Hoehe...
How it can keep up in a straight line:
Lower gearing; more torque at the wheels
Faster shifts
A better drive off of the lead-up corner, Galgenkopf.

Sport Auto GT-R top speed: 276 kph
DR GT-R top speed: 271 kph, with partly damp Galgenkopf
Sport Auto Z06: 270 kph

Apparently, the GT-R can keep up with the Z06 on this straight.

 

Why doesnt everyone just agree to disagree. This back and forth isnt going to solve anything as all of you are convinced of your respective premises. Just let it go. Nothing will be solved with another thousand pages of this thread. Point, counterpoint to oblivion and beyond so far lol.

 

Oh, did he? Here's Chris Harris's quote from the article:
"I just don't see where another 27 seconds comes from with the car I drove. Ten, perhaps - fifteen with a set of those gummy Dunlops fitted, Suzuki-san driving, using his sublime skills and telephathic knowledge of the car's handling traits."
I don't see any reference to weather, there. Do you?
Thinking something doesn't make it so.

So now you're saying the track was wet during the timed laps?
GT2 is faster than the AWD Turbo on Sport Auto's wet handling course; doesn't the GT2 make more power than the Turbo?
997 S (RR) is faster than the AWD Turbo on Sport Auto's wet handling course.
GT3's are faster than the AWD Turbo on Sport Auto's wet handling course.
The GT2's sports tires in that test (Cup+) have been optimized for wet weather handling.
The GT-R's greater mass isn't really suited to a wet (and damp/oily) track. What do you say to that?



7:38 isn't close to 7:33? You're a real interesting guy, monaro.
GM vs Hvs, Z06: 6-9 seconds difference; "it's in the same ballpark!"
GM vs HvS, C6: 16-19 seconds difference; "it's in the same ballpark!"
HvS, GT-R vs GT2: 5 seconds difference; "it's not close"

"On days that seemed climatically identical but were months apart, [race] cars have seen up to a five second dispcrepancy in lap times. Including ours...the track seems to change on an hourly basis..."
--Chris Harris

5 seconds, done on different days, is reasonably close, monaro. I'll use your logic again: can you name another stock production car with ~500 hp and 3900 lbs that can lap in under 7:40?

You don't get the best out of a car in only a handful of laps, even with two bites. Basseng, in the Zonda, had two bites and even though he knocked off 4 seconds, he still hasn't got the best out of the Zonda (estimated to be 7:20).
But this goes beyond skill. Suzuki drove with VDC-off. HvS drove with VDC-R. And there is strong indication that he runs at < 100%. Suzuki was at 100%. It will be interesting to see HvS's in-car camera.

 

Monarocountry you know what? You may be on to something with this one.....there is actual photographic evidence to support your theory this time

This dodgy looking character was seen trackside and was he was heard saying implicating stuff like "i'll make sure the GTR wins.....it's my creation, it's my baby and it will win at any cost....muuhhaahahah "

Someone snapped this picture of him mixing up something evil........oh and this may also explain all the other anomalies surrounding the GT-R

 

By "whoever," monaroCountry really means [insert name of current or former Nissan employee].

Check your local TV listings for showtimes.


BMW M3: "Well, it killed my family."

 

The conditions at the time were actually dry with some damp and oily patches. This limited cornering ability in both cars in places, but the GT2 was further limited by inability to accelerate all out. The GT-R sports one of the most sophisticated AWD in the world, with an active center differential. It has the advantage in this scenario because it can help keep the car stable with sudden, unexpected changes in traction. Anyone arguing otherwise isn't giving Nissan's engineers the credit they deserve.

As far as the wet handling comments, those are being blown out of proportion. The track was completely saturated during some of the earlier "feeler" laps. Guibo is correct that all the higher powered 911s do surprisingly well on SportAuto's wet handling course. However, your aren't experiencing abrupt changes in the track surface under this scenario. Again, the DR article makes it clear that you use a different technique and a completely different driving line on a fully wet Nurburgring.

My last post on the matter as this horse has been beaten to death.

 

Do some research before opening your trap, go look up Jim Richards and why he lost it on a 2nd gear corner in Targa. Jim Richards was the original Nissan GTR main driver, it was his R32 that created the Godzilla tag. He is possibly one of the best drivers I have ever seen, a straight shooter and isnt one to make up silly excuses. In this instance he put it down to a racing incident, he admitted exactly what happened, again do some research.

 

First of all, I wouldn't consider the 997 Carrera S a "higher-powered 911." Certainly not against the Turbo. The Carrera S is faster on Sport Auto's wet handling track than the Turbo.
I don't think I've seen a single piece of evidence supporting this theory about the GT-R's AWD system. The GT-R's AWD is optimized for performance, yes. But all the evidence points toward it being optimized in the dry. If it is so good in a combination of damp/oily and dry track, then why is it so lousy in the wet? You'd figure the latter would be far more predictable for the car's control systems to adapt to.
In fact, there is anectodal evidence suggesting the GT-R is indeed quite challenged by a combination of dry and damp conditions. monaroCountry was spreading this bit all over the place last year, in explaining what a failure the GT-R is, when it placed lowly in the previous One Lap of America:
"the GT-R turned in top-10 times at all the dry road circuits, finishing up with a top-four sprint in the final track event, at BeaveRun, near Pittsburgh.
But it was a different story when the pavement was moist. The GT-R’s Bridgestone Potenza run-flat tires (255/40ZRF-20 front, 285/35ZRF-20 rear) delivered plenty of dry grip but slithered in the wet. This led to poor times for two runs in an all-day downpour at Texas World Speedway, and two that were even worse on tarmac that went from wet to dry in the first two (of three) rounds at Virginia International Raceway."
--Tony Swan, C&D

Chris Harris could go WOT in the GT-R in some places because the car's traction control will cut power accordingly.
I seriously doubt you get the magnitude of inverse cornering in HvS vs CH at Angstkurve on the basis of Dunlops vs Bridgestones. Hell, even through the very fast Fuchsroehre, HvS matched his speed in the GT2 with the GT-R. On the fast Schwedenkruez and Kesselchen sections, Harris was likewise closer to HvS's GT2 maximum speeds than HvS's GT-R speeds. So even if the GT2 was losing speed on the straights due to short-shifting (which, BTW, sounds like a pretty good method to avoid an intrusive traction control system from cutting power), the GT-R was also slower on the straights than it would have been in the dry.
Pure conjecture, about how these two would differ in bone dry conditions. That is why "it can be argued."

 

Oh you mean when he didnt even finished the race? Most Australians are very competitive by nature, for most you have to finish and or be leading the race to actually win. Again the Nissan won by default. Anyway Jim is a great driver and he has always drove a masterful race whichever car he uses, he is simply a legend.

Which council put the barriers in the wrong place, maybe its the same guy who sabotaged Jim Richard's Targa Tasmania GT2? I bet ya it was a group of Porsche fanatics from 6speedonline who secretly moved the barriers....lol j/k.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFlu43r6nK0

 

[breaking...promise...not...to...reply]

Tires. The AWD system can't exactly route power to wheels with grip when there is no traction to be had.

You left out the most important part:

"When you’re among the early runners on a wet track and the rain has stopped, all you’re doing is drying the track for the guys who run later—and, natch, faster."

Swan is not talking about a dry track with a few wet sections mixed. The rain had just stopped, the track was still WET, and the GT-R didn't do so great because it couldn't get much traction from the Bridgestones. This situation is not the same as the condition of the Ring in the DR test where the track was drying for hours:

"Then, with no warning, the clouds disperse, beams of sunlight pierce the gloom, and within minutes, wisps of vaporized water are rising from the track. At this rate, there will be something approaching a dry line at the very end of the day."

Here's what your argument boils down to - On anything less than a bone dry surface, the GT-R is at a disadvantage to most of its rivals due to its weight. I'll say it again, if that's really true (and I don't think is), Nissan missed the mark.

 

Another solid use of MonaroWin and MonaroLogic!!!!!

Win by default....hahahahah, like Charlie said.....Federer won this year only because Nadal was hurt, and since Nadal has dominated Federer on the clay in the past....so Federer won this year by default. Hey Monaro you are right, Federer should just turn in his trophy

Yup you got it exactly 100% correct, GT-R only wins when others don't finish the race faster than it and of course that ain't really winning.

 

Ask any racer, any real racer, and he'll tell you. It doesn't matter if you win by an inch, or whether you win by a mile, winning is winning.

 

How are you sure that he is not? He clearly said there were some dry conditions at VIR. "The tarmac went from wet to dry" could mean one of 2 things:
1) He is either talking about the track at first being wet, then drying as the day wears on (as you are saying), or
2) he is saying that the track concurrently goes from wet to dry (ie, the track is dry and wet in places). This second one makes more sense, against what he said about TWS (downpour, 100% wet).
On a totally wet TWS, he was in the low teens among finishers. At VIR, with drying conditions, he was around 40th place among finishers in the first two sessions (where the track was going from wet to dry). The last lap at VIR, in which the track was not going from wet to dry, he placed 7th.
A huge drop from finishing in low teens (at TWS, which was saturated) to ~40th place (at VIR) doesn't make any sense if you want to continue claiming that a combination of damp and dry doesn't hurt the GT-R so much. Clearly it did.
Just look at the wording:
"tarmac that went from wet to dry in the first two (of three) rounds at VIR"
So not once, but twice the track just happened to go from wet to dry.

"There will be something approaching" does not mean it actually happened. In any case, even when the track had mostly dried, there were still damp and oily patches which affected both cars, not just the GT2. In other words, the GT-R was still traction-impaired so you cannot say that the conditions had swung in the GT-R's favor. In fact, by CH saying "it can be argued that the conditions favored the Nissan," he is implying slippery conditions. And NOT the dry track conditions which would favor the GT-R; those conditions were not met during the timed laps.