R33 only got 270hp? did they bring R34 to set lap time at the ring? I remember R34 got a "Nürburgring" version.

 

the 7:59 was an R33, this particular car went around faster than the 550hp CTS-V

 

I've just gotten to the point where i don't even read his posts anymore. You know at least Heavychevy brings up reasonable points when there's an argument to be made. But this... this is just incoherent rambling.

 

Charlies posts or Doom's post are no different, mindless babbling...at least Jasper and Kickhard actually bring something to this thread.

 

1) Traction coming out of the lead-up corner (Galgenkopf).
2) Full-throttle, no-lift shifts with the DCT, providing uninterrupted torque delivery
3) Apparently very low total drag force area; a Zonda likely has more drag
4) Ideal conditions (does that mean a 20 mph tailwind? Who knows?)
5) Elevation: Doettinger Hohe is about 550m above sea level. The GT-R will be making closer to its rated power than the Enzo/CGT/Zonda.
6) Greater torque multiplication due to short gearing

In the case of the ZR1:
"Jim [Mero] commented after the lap that conditions were good except for a strong headwind down the main straight and that the lap was solid, but he felt there were a few places* he could have gone faster."
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=128071
Check out the bobbles, messed up lines, and a powerslide so lurid that Mero throws up his hand in self-admonishment. On top of that, there's the non-optimal gearing: Mero shifts into the ZR1's momentum-killing overdrive 6th gear 1/3rd the way up the incline on the straight. The same straight where the car is experiencing a heavy headwind. As a result, instead of steadily gaining speed, you can see him actually lose 3 mph on the way up, and he hovers at ~174 mph for a long, long time.
You're comparing a 100% Nissan lap to a GM lap that's probably ~95%

Zonda: misfiring near the end of the lap
Also, Basseng was slower in a couple of corners than HvS.
100% Nissan lap vs < 100% lap for the Zonda

How is it possible that the ZR1, piloted by an engineer, outruns a 900+ hp mid-engined Koenigsegg (non-runflat tires) driven by a professional racecar driver on the 'Ring?

What was the R34's 'Ring time?

 

+1

So true........At least Heavychevy even though I disagree with some of his statments makes sense, listens to the other side, and can make a smart response. Morano keeps spitting the same crap(and some wrong facts) and doesnt make any sense or have statements that have any common sense.
You have fanatics on both sides I guess but I dont worry about things that dont really matter. The ring time had nothing to do with me purchasing my GTR at all. I had wanted placed my order way before the ring times were posted.

Again another thread gone totally off topic and not being a benefit to the GTR community thanks to Morano

 

VERY interesting post.

This is pretty much what I've been saying for the past - forever (just without all of the details).

Take that same ZR-1 driven by the same guy on the same track for over hundreds of laps (since years before it was released), and eventually the stars will align, and catch all the right winds, shade over the perfect areas to make the tires just the right pressure, and catch all of the shifts just right, with the perfect braking points - and set an amazing lap (the golden lap).

Lather, rinse, repeat for the zonda, koenigsegg, etc...

*edit: I didn't know about the ZR-1 lap conditions (don't really care, I'll probably never buy one, unless the cost comes waaayyyyyy down). But still very interesting.

 

What's really interesting is that monaroCountry continues to drag up the same, tired ZR1 example, even though he has known about the heavy headwind conditions for months now.

Another interesting point:
In a recent Auto Motor und Sport comparo on the Nurburgring with the Turbo, the production-spec GT-R hit 275 kph on Doettinger Hohe, before the left-hand kink leading into Tiergarten. Not only is this within 5 kph of what the ZR1 managed at the same point, it is not much slower than the 7:29 GT-R; this test apparently included a passenger during the timed laps.
The Turbo in the test hit 280 kph, about the same speed as the ZR1, at the same point. According to monaroCountry, who doggedly refuses the heavy headwind of the ZR1, this could only mean one thing: that Turbo must have been a ringer. (It was 16 seconds slower than the GT-R in the same test around the Nordschleife, BTW.)

HvS was slower in the C6 Z06 than Magnussen by 6 seconds. He was slower than GM's claimed C6 time by 16 seconds. Before the ZR1, GM's practice was to time their laps with a standing start, so the real difference is probably a few seconds more, about 9 seconds and 19 seconds, respectively. How can one continue to smear Nissan for "cheating," yet ignore even more blatant discrepancies between HvS and GM times?

 

- The production spec GT-R hit 169 mph at the Dottinger Kink, the ZR-1 was clearly at 177 at the turn, that's 8 mph, WITH a headwind. 9mph does not equal 5 kph. What kind of math are you doing?

- As I've said over and over again, the speed at Dottinger Curve is erroneous because there is a turn approaching at 170-180 mph and the slightest lift can make for 5-10 mph swings in speed. HVS lifted heavily going into that turn, why? because he was on aweful tires in a light in the pants sports car. Therefore the difference in speed to him and Jan was huge and more importantly, it was slower than HvS's speed in the TT.

- If you look at HvS's video, you can clearly see a misshift that took him a couple of seconds to get back into gear, and with heavy lifts at some corners, it makes sense that his time was even that far off and yet STILL closer than Nissan's time on an R-comp type tire, with AWD.

 

AMus / Sport Auto lap charts show the Doettinger Hohe speed some distance before the curve. The same is true for the Drivers Republic test. So whatever the ZR1 is doing in the curve is irrelevant. The fact remains that the ZR1 lost speed on the uphill climb, where most other cars are still accelerating, as a function of its overly tall gearing, the incline, and the strong headwind. In any case, which production-spec GT-R hit 169 mph at the kink?
The point is: it's useless to compare ZR1 vs GT-R straight speeds because the conditions were vastly different. You can't draw a conclusion about cheating.
What you CAN do is estimate the 7:29 GT-R's speed at a similar point (before the kink), using Nissan's telemetry chart; you'll find that it is close enough to the AMuS test (and the DR test, for that matter) without resorting to claims of "cheating" to explain the small difference.

So you are saying that HvS did not drive the Z06 to the best of its capabilities. Isn't it a bit premature to assume that he did with the GT-R?
I have not seen the HvS lap video with the standard C6. Do you have a link to that? I'd like to see how HvS is losing 16-19 seconds to GM's test drivers.

 

^^Please read carefully, heavy. It's before (some distance before), not at the kink. At the kink, it should be going faster, assuming the driver did not lift.

 

Everytime one of you guys says the ZR1 shifts into its momentum killing 6th gear it makes you sound really stupid, as if you really have no idea what your talking about. Hint ...the ZR1 is geared alot different than any other Corvettes.

 

You guys may not know this but for alot of reasons Jan Magnussens 7:42.9 run with the Z06 was not an optimal lap. Simply put GM has not been accused of lying by anyone, so why keep bringing GM into this?

We know the Z06 especially the early cars, are a beast to drive at 10/10ths..which is why I expected a wider variation in its times but instead I see a wide variation in the GTR's times. So all of the reasons why the GTR keeps up with the CGT, Zonda and Enzo are not good enough to allow pro drivers to come close to one washed up F1 drivers times?

 

Saying it is geared a lot different than any other Corvettes tells us nothing...if Corvettes in general have extremely tall gearing. Which they do. 6th gear in the ZR1 is quite a bit taller than the GT-R. The fact that the ZR1 lost 3 mph after his shift, and it stayed at ~174 mph forever, tells us the tall gearing is taking its toll (in addition to the wind and incline). The GT-R does not lose speed on the way up the hill; it steadily gains it.

 

So you're saying the difference between a Magnussen optimal lap and HvS's lap is likely 10+ seconds (if both had rolling starts).
How about the 16-19 seconds difference between C6 times?
You haven't seen a wide variation in Z06 times because there are only 2 known published tests of the Z06 on the 'Ring. Maybe nobody cares enough to test it more. BTW, people here (and on rennteam) have doubted GM's times before...
So how about it? Explain to me how the ZR1 outruns the 900-hp mid-engined Koenigsegg running non-runflat tires.