Wait. After reading all of those reports from all of those people, we still don't have a clue, not even an inkling, of what the GT-R is like at the limit? "Sudden snap oversteer"..."violent when it breaks loose"..."can punish a lifted throttle and an overgenerous steering correction (the natural reaction to any oversteer at high speeds) just as viciously as any 911, any Ferrari or any Lamborghini"..."It is not very natural"
Based on this, would you make the educated guess that the GT-R is easy to drive at its true limit, as some have been claiming?

By whom, might I ask?

 

I said YOU which means you personally don't know how the GTR is at the limit. No amount of reading will tell you that TRUTH, and I already knew what all of the people you quoted said before you wasted your time Control-V guy!

I also never once said the GTR was easy to drive at the limit, and I will just assume that you haven't realized by now I don't need to lie about what was said nor do I care what you the internets GTR warrior thinks about me.

 

Did I ever say that I personally know how the GT-R behaves at the limit?
Fine, replace the "we" with "I" or "you." It doesn't really matter. Couldn't someone have some semblance of a clue of how the GT-R behaves based on what I posted?

You were wondering about Nissan's claim of the accessibility of the GT-R. I tried to address that with the 1st-hand driving experiences of those who have driven the GT-R with VDC off and/or tried to take it to its true limit. You subsequently asked if someone was making the assertion that the GT-R was as difficult or more difficult to drive than the ZR1. My apologies if you meant someone else other than me. But I'd still like to know who said it.

 

Where oh where to start. ATTESA-ETS is 80's technology! The R32 was launched in 1989.

And you don't even understand how the 959's system works because that is also controlled via feedback from electronic sensors measuring steering angle, throttle position, g-force and boost among other things.

So in this post

you were wrong whether you were talking about traditional ATTESA-ETS or the 959 system and you are also wrong that the 2 systems have nothing in common, as there are several major similarities in the nature of the systems, even if they were built using completely different components.

In short, you know nothing about GTR AWD systems or Porsche AWD systems and bring absolutely nothing to this conversation. Ta-ta.

What to say, what to say? Best I don't say what I'd like to say, or VSEChuck will ban me.

 

Actually it won't. If you leave the front wheels completely unpowered, you will get drivetrain drag, which is similar to a small braking torque and would cause a small amount of understeer. Adding a little power counteracts the drivetrain drag and keeps the net torque acting on the front wheels neutral and prevents such understeer (if we're getting technical). And from your posts it is evident that you are still failing to distinguish between power oversteer/understeer and on-limit cornering oversteer/understeer. The latter is more to do with weight distribution, front-vs-rear-end grip, front vs rear spring rate and polar moments. Front vs rear brake strength also plays a part during turn in. Transmission has SFA to do with it. It's like claiming that having AWD alters grip. It doesn't, it increases traction (and stability).

 

I was not pointing you out individually. I saw your previous mention. I, probably like you, don't have enough information to dispute Nissan's claims.

It appears heavychevy and monaroCountry both have more information than we do.

For somebody that complains about cut&pasting, the only information about the GT-R heavychevys got - is pasted from somewhere.

 

You only have to look at the results of the Moscow 500 mile to know why the GTR can be as fast as a ZR1 on the 'ring. The Switzer P800 finishes a second faster than a Ford GT1000 despite being ~25mph lower in speed. The most important part of a straight is the start. The GTR is better at the start of a straight than a ZR1.

Many 'enthusiasts' can't understand why a car like the Nissan GTR laps so fast despite being laughably heavy and having a fairly mediocre power-to-weight ratio and relatively poor high-speed acceleration. There's been many accusations of 'ringer' and 'cheat' etc. If you analyse velocity-time graphs, the truth is simply that if you can leave a corner faster than the opposition like a GTR, you leave them with a lot to do in terms of acceleration later on, which then leaves them with more speed to wipe off at the end of the straight. People complain about a Nissan GTR's mass, but KE = 0.5mv^2. Hence the amount of work the brakes do is only directly proportional to mass but is proportional to the square of that extra velocity that the opposition needs to catch back up. Even then the extra speed means they have to brake earlier, so they're left trying to make it up in the turns, which puts strain on the tyres and once again we see that centrifugal force = mv^2/r. So directly proportional to m but proportional to v^2 yet again. So it's very difficult to corner faster without cheating with downforce or slicks.

All of a sudden that extra weight doesn't seem like such a problem when it's traction and DCT advantage at the start of straights has other cars accelerating, braking and cornering their tyres off just to stay in touch.

Traditionally with everything technologically even; with conventional drivetrains and transmissions and moderate power outputs, weight has been the main enemy. With non-classical active drivetrains and dual-clutch transmissions, whilst weight is still an enemy, we see that somewhat paradoxically, velocity, or rather the need for higher velocity - as induced by RWD, street-legal tyres and manual gearboxes - becomes a greater enemy wrt the equations for KE and centrifugal force/centripetal acceleration.

 

How about you quit deflecting attention from your lack of knowledge to guibo's novel-posts. You have no idea what the difference between push and power understeer is. Are you too lazy to look it up so you can at least TRY to understand what I'm saying. It appears not, so you continue you act like you know what you're talking about when reality is you don't.

Fact of the matter is there are automotive journalists that drive cars fro tests and still can't tell their head from their butt crack when it comes to a car. So your DE laps don't mean much if you don't understand basics which you clearly don't.

LOL, not even enough courage to actually cut and paste my post this time huh? Well let me help you.................

Now show me where I specifically said that HVS is better than Suzuki.....

Go ahead I'll wait...............

You wasted all that time searching through my posts and can't find a thing that supports your mis-comprehension and twisting of my words.

I'm starting to see why you mis-interpret all of your magazine clippings, because you CAN'T UNDERSTAND ENGLISH. If the shoe does not fit.......

GET OVER IT!!!!!!!

 

I'm curious - what gives you this impression? Where did I dispute this with you? Why are jumping to this erroneous conclusion? Why are you deflecting attention from your lack of knowledge about Nissan's 'Ring times?

I have never disputed your position about what definitions are. I've simply disputed that you have zero experience in a GT-R.

I thought that was quite simple, accurate, and 100% fact. Are you disputing this?

 

Don't try that nonsense with me Jasper, we both know you had no idea because you had no response to it, no different than you assuming that I have not driven a GT-R when you know nothing about me, am I right?

Don't play coy with me, address the issues head on.

 

I've already conceeded that the car understeers. I've already explained that there is no power going to the front. We can disagree about this all day long. Until you provide information about the GT-R still applying power on turn-in, I will disagree with you, and I have nothing further to add. I've offered to you - the way that many GT-R drivers have dialed out a large portion of the understeer, and that the nose is heavy (push).

Is there something else you are looking for?

 

LOL, you really are going to keep playing like you don't know what I'm talking about aren't you. PUSH vs POWER UNDERSTEER characteristics. LOOK THEM UP!! You can dial out a large portion of PUSH, but when it comes to POWER UNDERSTEER, it's not even remotely simple as tires, or factory camber adjustments.

The process of elimination says the car suffers from POWER UNDERSTEER.

Not to mention slip angles that I've mentioned before. To the car that is the same as a loss of traction, which is why when the VDC is on, it cuts power in corners. When it's off the tires still slip, but now the front wheels kick in. Doesn't take much turning input at high speeds for this to happen.

You actually think your car is RWD until mid-corner to corner exit and that is nonsense. The car suffers from POWER UNDERSTEER, moreso than Push. The push can be dialed out with tires, small camber adjustments, but POWER UNDERSTEER cannot, it takes a LOT more effort.

Seems consistent with what the FASTER of GT-R drivers are saying. Sometimes you can use logic to override experience, and this is one of them.

Many people think they don't have understeer and the fact is they aren't pushing the car hard enough to challenge the handling of the car. Running a 2:15 at VIR will feel completely different than running a 2:05 in the same car.

 

You guys let Heavy trick you into a debate about understeer?

Lets put aside all the CONJECTURE and deal with FACTS.

GTR-7:38
ZR-1 7:38


These are facts of life

Even Monaro said he wont show his face again until someone laps 7:20's in the ZR-1.

 

Yeah, how about we deal with facts:

ZR-1

- Press tested production car
- 0 prior seat time, especially on the ring
- Official time with a non pro driver in two weeks


GT-R

- NOT a production car, pre-production of a model not even released yet.
- Test drives during official Nissan testing.
- Official time with 5 years of testing and several drivers


Let's see some vids, so Guibo can use his unlimited experience to diagnose them.

 

I don’t understand what you are trying to say? It was a pre-production car? So.......what? why are you even bringing this up? Why do you ALWAYS try to inject innuendo into a discussion without directly saying what you mean? Are you trying to say the Supertest GTR was a ringer? They weighed it......it did 4.1 to 60....... Heavy, I'm far too smart, for you to reply to my post without actually making a declaration.

"Official time with 5 years of testing and several drivers"

What does this have to do with the supertest...

GTR: 7:38
ZR-1: 7:38

Again, don’t try to force in immaterial points if your going to reply to one of my post. I don’t have ADHD. And I will instantly recognize any point you make which serves no purpose. Monaro has gone off into hiding for a reason, you either need to follow his lead or quit beating around the bush.