Porsche deliberately used knackered GTR for Nurburgring comparison
#16
09-12-2009 | 12:04 PM
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Try this:
http://www.rennteam.com/forum/page1.html?vs=3
If that doesn't link directly, look for the "Nardo High-speed test in German AMS" thread on rennteam, in the "Other Sports Cars" sub forum.
http://www.rennteam.com/forum/page1.html?vs=3
If that doesn't link directly, look for the "Nardo High-speed test in German AMS" thread on rennteam, in the "Other Sports Cars" sub forum.
#17
09-12-2009 | 12:57 PM
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How about you just provide a direct link or STFU.
#18
09-12-2009 | 01:04 PM
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#19
09-12-2009 | 04:51 PM
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You must think people were born yesterday to try make out that a stock car blew its engine without tampering. I suppose all the cars doing rolls to 200mph with 600-700whp must have magic engines.
At the end of the day only one of the 2 companies narrowly escaped insolvency. Can you guess which?
Last edited by BD-; 09-12-2009 at 04:53 PM.
#20
09-12-2009 | 05:06 PM
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From moderator "MKSGR":
"BTW, the AMS article states that the NISSAN GTR could not succesfully participate in the test as its engine blew after one fast lap. No kidding."
You can either believe me, or continue to mock me and set yourself up to look monumentally stupid when the article is availble on AMS's website later this month. Have a nice day.
#21
09-12-2009 | 08:00 PM
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I think 'a lack of maintenance' in this case is a polite way of saying 'sabotaged'.
Nissan took a Porsche to the 'ring with the aim of developing a car that was genuinely faster than it. Porsche took a GTR to the 'ring with the sole intention of generating some propaganda.
As regards the whole endurance racer thing, it's over-done. Not what 99.99% of people want from a car. Admittedly the GTR isn't suited to endurance but neither is a 997TT. Any car over a tonne is the wrong car for such events. The GT3 might make a better job of 2 hour track sessions but it's inferior in sub-10 minute time attacks, it performs worse on B-roads and is virtually undriveable in the wet. Quite a compromise for the sake of achieving an endurance racing performance boost from a 'road' car. Most GTR drivers are sodding bored after 10 minutes lapping the same damn track anyway. Time to drive off and have some fun on the way home. I mean, how long before the same damn curves become very boring?
Not denying that the GT3 has a niche but it's a small niche. I.e. people who want a road car, that's only moderately effective across the broad scope of road conditions but gets very competitive after an hour on a track day. The question is, how many people want to lap for that long and of those people, how many also need the car to be road capable and aren't willing to go for something way lighter, faster and seriously competitive along with a 2nd car for road work? Nigh on £100k is a lot of money to pay out on a car that's neither best on the road, nor the track and yet use it for a lot of track work.
Don't get me wrong there are other qualities that make a GT3 highly desirable (high revving flat-6 etc.) but I don't think going round and round in a circle 100 times every Sunday is high up on that list. Certainly wouldn't be for me.
Nissan took a Porsche to the 'ring with the aim of developing a car that was genuinely faster than it. Porsche took a GTR to the 'ring with the sole intention of generating some propaganda.
As regards the whole endurance racer thing, it's over-done. Not what 99.99% of people want from a car. Admittedly the GTR isn't suited to endurance but neither is a 997TT. Any car over a tonne is the wrong car for such events. The GT3 might make a better job of 2 hour track sessions but it's inferior in sub-10 minute time attacks, it performs worse on B-roads and is virtually undriveable in the wet. Quite a compromise for the sake of achieving an endurance racing performance boost from a 'road' car. Most GTR drivers are sodding bored after 10 minutes lapping the same damn track anyway. Time to drive off and have some fun on the way home. I mean, how long before the same damn curves become very boring?
Not denying that the GT3 has a niche but it's a small niche. I.e. people who want a road car, that's only moderately effective across the broad scope of road conditions but gets very competitive after an hour on a track day. The question is, how many people want to lap for that long and of those people, how many also need the car to be road capable and aren't willing to go for something way lighter, faster and seriously competitive along with a 2nd car for road work? Nigh on £100k is a lot of money to pay out on a car that's neither best on the road, nor the track and yet use it for a lot of track work.
Don't get me wrong there are other qualities that make a GT3 highly desirable (high revving flat-6 etc.) but I don't think going round and round in a circle 100 times every Sunday is high up on that list. Certainly wouldn't be for me.
#22
09-13-2009 | 04:05 AM
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I'll say it again, a stock Nissan GT-R blew its engine and could not finish Auto Motor und Sport's high speed test at Nardo. This is translated directly from the article by the moderators on the rennteam board.
From moderator "MKSGR":
"BTW, the AMS article states that the NISSAN GTR could not succesfully participate in the test as its engine blew after one fast lap. No kidding."
You can either believe me, or continue to mock me and set yourself up to look monumentally stupid when the article is availble on AMS's website later this month. Have a nice day.
From moderator "MKSGR":
"BTW, the AMS article states that the NISSAN GTR could not succesfully participate in the test as its engine blew after one fast lap. No kidding."
You can either believe me, or continue to mock me and set yourself up to look monumentally stupid when the article is availble on AMS's website later this month. Have a nice day.
Nothing on their blog yet. Sure you didn't find this on PorscheTrutherBlog.net?
I did find this though, so it looks like one-off failures don't just happen to Nissan even if it is the case.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...Engine+Failure
Originally Posted by 997 Engine Fail
I write on behalf of my boss who has instructed me to spend a day a week researching this subject. I would like to hear from anyone who has suffered a similar problem. Legally he accepts he has no leg to stand on, but morally he is furious at how dismissive Porsche have been on what is increasingly appearing to be a fault with the engine of the 997 and wishes to build a case for professional presentation in the media based on the facts collected from this exercise. Had it not been for my initial research on the Web then he was pretty much accepting that he was an "unlucky one off" but my initial research has unearthed numerous identical cases accross the world. He is not internet "savvy" and is convinced there are many more 997 owners out there who are not "internet savvy" and will be unaware thier case is is not isolatated. As such, he has agreed a budget for me to place notices mainly in national journals and "High Net Worth" publications for owners past and present who have suffered similar problems to come forward.
The problem:
He purchased a Porsche 997 as they came out in 2004. It has been serviced exclusively by Porsche. He does very little mileage and as a result did not extend the warranty. It was last serviced in October 2008 when the mileage was aproximately 19,000 miles. A full service was carried out including full oil change. 1,000 miles later, during a drive the management system requested a visit to the workshop.
Porsche have diagnosed a fault with the sixth cylinder compression. The net result is a new engine. Like many other owners whom I have liased with the left hand exhaust is very black apparently from excessive oil being passed through a "score" in the sixth cylinder.
There seems to be huge inconsistencies as to how Porsche deal with thier customers depending upon where the car was bought and how it was serviced but the under lying fault appears entirely consistent.
It is the facts I wish to concentrate on and would be very grateful to hear from anybody who has had a similar, or most likely EXACT problem with the engine of thier 997 ONLY.
Should you wish to remain anonoymous then that is understood but the intention is to build a fully researched and accurate case and therefore your full support would be gratefully recieved.
He will be funding this research entirely from his own pocket and while initially the only costs involved are my time and publication of notices, ultimately the professional presentation to the media could prove costly. Should anyone who feels sufficiently strongly about this issue wish to donate towards this project thier donations will be greatly recived but the primary objective is to gather as many cases as is possible and it is in this regard that I would be most grateful to hear from you.
Like so many Porsche owners his loyalty and commitment to the Porsche brand has been total and it is only the dismissive and unsupportive response from Porsche when a clear fault on thier part is materialising that has shattered this commitment and led to this project.
Thank you for your time.
The problem:
He purchased a Porsche 997 as they came out in 2004. It has been serviced exclusively by Porsche. He does very little mileage and as a result did not extend the warranty. It was last serviced in October 2008 when the mileage was aproximately 19,000 miles. A full service was carried out including full oil change. 1,000 miles later, during a drive the management system requested a visit to the workshop.
Porsche have diagnosed a fault with the sixth cylinder compression. The net result is a new engine. Like many other owners whom I have liased with the left hand exhaust is very black apparently from excessive oil being passed through a "score" in the sixth cylinder.
There seems to be huge inconsistencies as to how Porsche deal with thier customers depending upon where the car was bought and how it was serviced but the under lying fault appears entirely consistent.
It is the facts I wish to concentrate on and would be very grateful to hear from anybody who has had a similar, or most likely EXACT problem with the engine of thier 997 ONLY.
Should you wish to remain anonoymous then that is understood but the intention is to build a fully researched and accurate case and therefore your full support would be gratefully recieved.
He will be funding this research entirely from his own pocket and while initially the only costs involved are my time and publication of notices, ultimately the professional presentation to the media could prove costly. Should anyone who feels sufficiently strongly about this issue wish to donate towards this project thier donations will be greatly recived but the primary objective is to gather as many cases as is possible and it is in this regard that I would be most grateful to hear from you.
Like so many Porsche owners his loyalty and commitment to the Porsche brand has been total and it is only the dismissive and unsupportive response from Porsche when a clear fault on thier part is materialising that has shattered this commitment and led to this project.
Thank you for your time.
Originally Posted by drmark
You are reinventing the wheel. It's a five year old car, these things happen (not as often as forums suggest) and Porsche will rebuff any claim. The press won't be interested. Tell your boss to suck it up and pay for a repair with someone like Baz at Hartech, or get a full replacement engine (not as madly expensive as you might think).
And before you flame me, I speak from experience. I had exactly the same problem at 7500 miles when my 997s was still under new car warranty and Porsche wanted to repair it with a new block etc. Had to fight for a new engine, which I got but only thanks to the intervention of my dealer (OPC Bristol).
Oh, and I work for a national newspaper.
Sometimes life is too short.....
And before you flame me, I speak from experience. I had exactly the same problem at 7500 miles when my 997s was still under new car warranty and Porsche wanted to repair it with a new block etc. Had to fight for a new engine, which I got but only thanks to the intervention of my dealer (OPC Bristol).
Oh, and I work for a national newspaper.
Sometimes life is too short.....
Originally Posted by Wanta996Gotta
This will all come back to haunt Porsche as the 996's fall under £20k enabling more and more of the public to sample the Porsche experience which includes engines that fail. I laugh at the people playing it down as this type of thread is only going to grow. My car has been fine bar two RMS changes that the OPC spotted when the car was in for servicing. Your local garage who are soon going to be servicing 10-15k 996's will not spot these never mind bigger problems leading to more stories of engine failures. Its going to be an embarrassment for Porsche.
http://www.total911.com/news/466/
I'm not here to criticise Porsche but let's keep it real. The GTR is a good car and Porsche have pulled some very dubious stunts to try and claim otherwise.
Last edited by BD-; 09-13-2009 at 04:31 AM.
#23
09-13-2009 | 04:40 AM
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actually Porsche prides itself on there cars ability to go straight from the show room to the track. if you ever get a chance to go to a track day at road atlanta you will see 1st hand many bone stock Porsche's (even none modded turbos) drive countless hard laps without ANY TYPE of machanical problems what so ever, wile LOTS of others overheat and blow there engines. have to say, no GTR's have yet to show..can't wait till they do!
The car's not indestructable but they aren't exactly made of chocolate either.
#24
09-13-2009 | 06:03 AM
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well one thing is for sure if it's man made it WILL have problems lol! it seems as if that problem has happened mostly with the 997s which is a 3.8 block if i am not mistaken...herd of any one with a gt3 997twin thats has the 3.6 gt1 block having that issue?
#25
09-13-2009 | 06:11 AM
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In September at Nurburgring, a certain German Sports car maker came to Nissan's garage with a grey import Nissan GT-R bought from Universal Nissan in the states.
[quote]They were having trouble finding a place to get maintenance for the GT-R, so they contacted the Nissan testing team.
Mizuno got a first hand look at the P's grey import Nissan.
It was obvious that P's GT-R neglected their 2000km post run-in inspection, but were conducting their "Time trials" in Nurburgring.[/quoet]
I guess this is Nissan's way of saying that their everytime, anywhere car cant be driven anytime anywhere. It seems that there is so many clauses and preccautionary steps with this car, it does seem that it cant achieve the advertised time in stock form.
Re: 2000km post run-in inspection
So is Nissan saying that a post run-in inspection could account for around 30 seconds time difference? This is basically the difference in performance between a Ferrari Enzo to a Caddy CTS-V.
The wheel alignment was off, running on the outer edge.
The gear shifts took well over 1 second.
The brake pads weren't pre-baked for track use, and were stuck to t
The gear shifts took well over 1 second.
The brake pads weren't pre-baked for track use, and were stuck to t
As for the wheel alignment issue. Well nah duh, stock road cars especially a heavy 4WD one would NEVER have an ideal track alignment. A properly and hard driven stock GTR should wear it's outside tire. Have a look at the alignment of a proper racecar, you would not see this setup on a normal road car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrOAIW4uOkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SFAt9cqZyU
I'm not criticising Porsche or saying that they're an unreliable/bad car, I just think that Porsche pulled a very dubious stunt when they took a GTR to the 'ring.
This article/excuse might backfire on Nissan.
Last edited by monaroCountry; 09-13-2009 at 06:15 AM.
#26
09-13-2009 | 06:31 AM
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A stock engine does not blow after 1 lap unless someone's tampered with it. Why would AMS, a tuning company, be running a stock GTR anyway? Hell, if it blows after one lap then how come all GTR engines haven't blown by now? I'm sure every single one of them has been subject to more stress than 1 fast lap entails.
Nothing on their blog yet. Sure you didn't find this on PorscheTrutherBlog.net?
I did find this though, so it looks like one-off failures don't just happen to Nissan even if it is the case.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...Engine+Failure
So don't come spouting all the gumf about Porsche being flawlessly reliable. It has its share of faults too. Interesting to see that RMS failures are catching up with 997s too now.
http://www.total911.com/news/466/
I'm not here to criticise Porsche but let's keep it real. The GTR is a good car and Porsche have pulled some very dubious stunts to try and claim otherwise.
Nothing on their blog yet. Sure you didn't find this on PorscheTrutherBlog.net?
I did find this though, so it looks like one-off failures don't just happen to Nissan even if it is the case.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...Engine+Failure
So don't come spouting all the gumf about Porsche being flawlessly reliable. It has its share of faults too. Interesting to see that RMS failures are catching up with 997s too now.
http://www.total911.com/news/466/
I'm not here to criticise Porsche but let's keep it real. The GTR is a good car and Porsche have pulled some very dubious stunts to try and claim otherwise.
Many owners in the GTR forum have already complained of how high and how easily temperatures reach on their stock GTR's when driven hard or semi aggressive on the Nurburgring. How they would need servicing after just one lap because of some Nissan clause about hitting certain fluid temperatures.
One has even broken his stock GTR around the Nurburgring after just half a lap.
Guys,
I am 'unfortunately' happy to inform you that the car belongs to me;
It is the second delivered GT-R here in Belgium;
And Evolution has won 50 euro's .. my chassis number is 239..
I still do not know what happened; My insurrance company was now instructed to tow the car.
I can only give you a small description;
It starte al as a beautifull day with a roadtrip among petrolheads; From astonishing nice looking Aston Martin DBS, over Porsches to Lambo 560 .. we had a group of around 20 belgium and dutch guys heading towards the Nordschleife;
Everybody was impressed by the GT-R, and like promised I would give my stock car some high speed runs at the autobahn.
Besides temperatures rising towards 106° for the transmission and 98° for engine everything was looking normal.
Once arrived at the Nordschleife I decided to go for a round on the Nordschleife (I drove it around 30 laps with my Audi S4 without any probs)
I decided to drive @ 70% of the capabilities in order not to force driver and car ;-)
After half a lap just before Karousel when I released the throttle I heard a rattling noice, power went down from 100% to 25% (I think);
I hoped I could go to the end point but @ Brunchen (30 seconds or so later after rattling began) the power was totally gone and engine stopped with some white smoke..
Frustrated by the fact I had already a trust issue after my 4WD probs I had to look at a nicely wrapped GT-R with clearly no stock exhaust who past me 4 times, a Black UK GT-R as well several times ..
How can I be so in love with this car and at the same time having so many problems?
How can Nissan keep stating this is a supercar tha anytime, anywhere, anybody .. blabla
They should start a proper customer care handling as well as a recall action for the first Euro deliveries; I cannot believe this is a small problem.
Or perhaps they counted that only people who drive normally a micra would be so much impressed that the hardly dare to hit the throttle. Sorry to say, (@Nissan) but I am not one of those species; I bought the car were they stated it was build for; HIGH performance any day.
As a starting racing driver, I know the difference; You cannot puch cars on and on without braking something, but this is not a racecar prepped car.
It is built for endurance..
Like I said, I pushed my S4 more than the GT-R simply because the limits of the GT-R are far far beyond the S4.
Hope Nissan will act now.
I am 'unfortunately' happy to inform you that the car belongs to me;
It is the second delivered GT-R here in Belgium;
And Evolution has won 50 euro's .. my chassis number is 239..
I still do not know what happened; My insurrance company was now instructed to tow the car.
I can only give you a small description;
It starte al as a beautifull day with a roadtrip among petrolheads; From astonishing nice looking Aston Martin DBS, over Porsches to Lambo 560 .. we had a group of around 20 belgium and dutch guys heading towards the Nordschleife;
Everybody was impressed by the GT-R, and like promised I would give my stock car some high speed runs at the autobahn.
Besides temperatures rising towards 106° for the transmission and 98° for engine everything was looking normal.
Once arrived at the Nordschleife I decided to go for a round on the Nordschleife (I drove it around 30 laps with my Audi S4 without any probs)
I decided to drive @ 70% of the capabilities in order not to force driver and car ;-)
After half a lap just before Karousel when I released the throttle I heard a rattling noice, power went down from 100% to 25% (I think);
I hoped I could go to the end point but @ Brunchen (30 seconds or so later after rattling began) the power was totally gone and engine stopped with some white smoke..
Frustrated by the fact I had already a trust issue after my 4WD probs I had to look at a nicely wrapped GT-R with clearly no stock exhaust who past me 4 times, a Black UK GT-R as well several times ..
How can I be so in love with this car and at the same time having so many problems?
How can Nissan keep stating this is a supercar tha anytime, anywhere, anybody .. blabla
They should start a proper customer care handling as well as a recall action for the first Euro deliveries; I cannot believe this is a small problem.
Or perhaps they counted that only people who drive normally a micra would be so much impressed that the hardly dare to hit the throttle. Sorry to say, (@Nissan) but I am not one of those species; I bought the car were they stated it was build for; HIGH performance any day.
As a starting racing driver, I know the difference; You cannot puch cars on and on without braking something, but this is not a racecar prepped car.
It is built for endurance..
Like I said, I pushed my S4 more than the GT-R simply because the limits of the GT-R are far far beyond the S4.
Hope Nissan will act now.
Last edited by monaroCountry; 09-13-2009 at 06:37 AM.
#27
09-13-2009 | 09:13 AM
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So you think that when a car's brakes are jammed on and when a car is pulling to one side it will run its best lap or near? I'd have thought that a keen pro-endurance-racing-dreamer such as yourself would appreciate the affect. Seems like they either picked up an abused secondhand car or deliberately tampered it pre-effort. I don't see all that happening after a few laps. Seems a bit like a vertical v-t graph to me. And for the record, a correctly set up GTR will tend to wear its inner edge, as would any car running track-orientated camber.
As regards the story, how can this be a common case? Why have no independent magazine testers like Sport Auto, Driver's Republic or CAR ever experienced anything similar when lapping the 'ring? Are you going to claim that their cars had some sort of special cooling system that was simply too expensive for Nissan to fit to all cars and save themselves god knows how much in warranteed repairs. Even Porsche, the masters of propaganda, didn't experience this with an engine that was constantly pulling against jammed brakes and poor tracking. They just noted that it was slower than expected.
Where were all the paparazzi when Nissan's test cars were blowing up after probably the most extensive 'ring testing any manufacturer has ever done? They were sure as hell there to catch a pre-production model of the R8 V10 on fire. We saw plenty of test footage of the GTR???
This is the problem. These stories do not stack up as anything more than freak occurrences when compared with the vast array of other tests and data available. There are long-termer GTRs being ran by magazines and they aren't experiencing these problems. It's very difficult to believe what you read on the net in the absence of independent verification. Hell, I could logout and come back as JamalCamal and pretend that my brand new 997 TT had lost compression in its 6th cylinder after the very first full-bore run in 3rd. I could even log in somewhere else as AliBaba and claim that the S2 GT3 had a critical flaw in its suspension when cornered hard. But guess what? It doesn't stack up because I'm not the only person to have put the cars through such manoeuvres and many others have done it without the problems I'm describing, including respected magazines and known associates of the people reading my garbage. What are Porsche hoping for? A win by disqualification? Well sorry but this isn't Le Mans and this is a Nissan GTR not an M3 GTR.
I don't understand why such a great car maker can have such a bad attitude but then with strong routes traceable to **** Germany, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. What next? Are Porsche going to try rounding up all the GTRs and forcing them into concentration garages?
As regards the story, how can this be a common case? Why have no independent magazine testers like Sport Auto, Driver's Republic or CAR ever experienced anything similar when lapping the 'ring? Are you going to claim that their cars had some sort of special cooling system that was simply too expensive for Nissan to fit to all cars and save themselves god knows how much in warranteed repairs. Even Porsche, the masters of propaganda, didn't experience this with an engine that was constantly pulling against jammed brakes and poor tracking. They just noted that it was slower than expected.
Where were all the paparazzi when Nissan's test cars were blowing up after probably the most extensive 'ring testing any manufacturer has ever done? They were sure as hell there to catch a pre-production model of the R8 V10 on fire. We saw plenty of test footage of the GTR???
This is the problem. These stories do not stack up as anything more than freak occurrences when compared with the vast array of other tests and data available. There are long-termer GTRs being ran by magazines and they aren't experiencing these problems. It's very difficult to believe what you read on the net in the absence of independent verification. Hell, I could logout and come back as JamalCamal and pretend that my brand new 997 TT had lost compression in its 6th cylinder after the very first full-bore run in 3rd. I could even log in somewhere else as AliBaba and claim that the S2 GT3 had a critical flaw in its suspension when cornered hard. But guess what? It doesn't stack up because I'm not the only person to have put the cars through such manoeuvres and many others have done it without the problems I'm describing, including respected magazines and known associates of the people reading my garbage. What are Porsche hoping for? A win by disqualification? Well sorry but this isn't Le Mans and this is a Nissan GTR not an M3 GTR.
I don't understand why such a great car maker can have such a bad attitude but then with strong routes traceable to **** Germany, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. What next? Are Porsche going to try rounding up all the GTRs and forcing them into concentration garages?
#28
09-13-2009 | 09:29 AM
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Who cares, why do the Nissan guys keep trying to compare their cars to Porsche’s? It is not a Porsche, we all know that. I have not seen one thread from a Porsche guy trying to say his Porsche is as good as a Nissan that sums it up. It isn’t a Porsche where you push a button on the dash and void your warranty, it isn’t Porsche making claim after claim that they are as good as better than a Nissan.
The facts are the facts, accept them.
-- rant --
The facts are the facts, accept them.
-- rant --
#29
09-13-2009 | 09:47 AM
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Ask 9 out of 10 people which one they would prefer and they will say a Porsche Turbo/GT3. Don't say anything about price or speed. If you were able to have the keys to one or the other most everyone would go for the p-car. Who cares about a few seconds on the Nurburgring? Hell I say let the GTR people have the win. Who cares? Because at the end of the day most of them will still wish that they had been able to afford a little more to get a Turbo/GT3. To me that is proof of where the real win is...
#30
09-13-2009 | 09:49 AM
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http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/122997-r3...ty-denied.html
Linked from above article:
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/122795-an...has-heard.html
You'll notice the car has had a Cobb AP tune. Now the Cobb AP is a great piece of kit but it's only as good as the tuner. I'm sure you appreciate that it's perfectly possible to blow a whole in a near stock hp 997 turbo with a duff tune. No engine can take serious detonation for very long.
In fact further research reveals his other thread:
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/120743-te...-its-fast.html
So damn far from standard. That tune on a Cobb AP is described as 'custom' but is probably better described as 'experimental'. Many people are getting a Cobb AP tune and then changing the pipework. This in turn changes the response of the engine in terms of lag and boost threshold and before long you're running high boost and high AFR in the transition regions and hence you have problems (on any car).
There's 2 recipes for failure (not saying which is right here).
1) A tuner that doesn't know their **** from their elbow.
2) A user who doesn't have a basic understanding of the affects of modifications. I.e. they get a tune for a given engine configuration and then change the configuration such that a safe tune is no longer safe.
Unfortunately the GTR has cult status in the tuner world and being relatively cheap lots of people have them and lots of people mod them, and lots of them don't know what they're doing. Get a sensible tune/mod and you can safely run 800hp. Get a stupid one and you'll fail at half that.
Mapping is a black art even when you're dealing with a known, unchanging engine configuration. How does the mapper know what ambient conditions the engine will be subject to? Or how many bad batches of fuel it'll be subject to? They sure as hell don't drive out to the Nevada Desert and then across to Siberia during the mapping session (like the manufacturer does!). It's more an experience and judgement call.