Porsche deliberately used knackered GTR for Nurburgring comparison
#46
09-13-2009 | 07:05 PM
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I am not brand loyal to Nissan or Porsche because I don't own either car, but if I could screen shot my control panel you will see how much people literally hate me because I don't agree the GTR is the best car in our solar system! 
It's not a personal thing folks and just a quick clue, Porsche's credibility is not the one in question....I think Porsche may or may not be able to teach Nissan a thing about credibility...
It's not a personal thing folks and just a quick clue, Porsche's credibility is not the one in question....I think Porsche may or may not be able to teach Nissan a thing about credibility...
#47
09-13-2009 | 07:06 PM
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in response to griffin...yea but....what fun would that be 
Last edited by NOSBT2T; 09-13-2009 at 07:15 PM.
#48
09-17-2009 | 08:07 AM
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Many owners in the GTR forum have already complained of how high and how easily temperatures reach on their stock GTR's when driven hard or semi aggressive on the Nurburgring. How they would need servicing after just one lap because of some Nissan clause about hitting certain fluid temperatures.
Secondly - yes, some acheive pretty high temps in one lap, but 250deg+ in one lap? Hardly. And even if somebody acheived that temp in one lap, the warranty states that the owner should have fluids changed in about 1800 miles.
If you had any actual information about the car, I'd think you wouldn't actually post anything.
As Carmagazine? has stated, a stock GTR brakes has an effective use of only ONE very hard lap and a Spec V carbon ceramic brakes at least last THREE very hard laps. It is not Porsches fault that the GTR is a heavy machince and it is not Porsches fault that Nissan decided to use a front engined 4wd instead of a better setup RR like some certain German manufacturer.
Unlike ordinary mortals, these manufacturers and magazines would not wink about a few thousand Euros in repairs and maintenance. The sad thing is that Nissan advertised something which no one can ever replicate.
You could also see it this way. Nissan didnt put the GTR through an extensive enough testing loop, as clearly evidenced by their outragious inspection procedure, their fragile gearbox, and their ineffecient cooling
.
The person whose GTR broke down didnt create the thread, he only responded to a fellow GTR owner who noticed the broken GTR being towed. This owner with the broken GTR was also part of a group of enthusiasts, some driving GTR's at the same time. No one has questioned the fact that this particular fellow has a GTR, drove it and broke down at the Ring.
Here is the thread.
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/123995-br...-happened.html
It's very sad that anyone would associate the current Porsche with **** Germany, surely Porsche has made ammends (as much as humanly possible) since WWII. I also do not find jokes about concentration camps funny.
I do know my history and Germany wasnt the only nation doing the invading. Instead of reading anymore GTR threads/praise, maybe you should open up a history book and learn what exactly happened and who the major players were.
Achieving 800hp takes more than just a tune and boost increase. Increase the boost enough and your outside the turbo, intercooler and exhaust extraction effeciency (im not even talking about effeciency here). Trust me when I say that a GTR with TUNE only will NOT reach 800hp.
Unlike ordinary mortals, these manufacturers and magazines would not wink about a few thousand Euros in repairs and maintenance. The sad thing is that Nissan advertised something which no one can ever replicate.
You could also see it this way. Nissan didnt put the GTR through an extensive enough testing loop, as clearly evidenced by their outragious inspection procedure, their fragile gearbox, and their ineffecient cooling
.The person whose GTR broke down didnt create the thread, he only responded to a fellow GTR owner who noticed the broken GTR being towed. This owner with the broken GTR was also part of a group of enthusiasts, some driving GTR's at the same time. No one has questioned the fact that this particular fellow has a GTR, drove it and broke down at the Ring.
Here is the thread.
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/123995-br...-happened.html
It's very sad that anyone would associate the current Porsche with **** Germany, surely Porsche has made ammends (as much as humanly possible) since WWII. I also do not find jokes about concentration camps funny.
I do know my history and Germany wasnt the only nation doing the invading. Instead of reading anymore GTR threads/praise, maybe you should open up a history book and learn what exactly happened and who the major players were.
Achieving 800hp takes more than just a tune and boost increase. Increase the boost enough and your outside the turbo, intercooler and exhaust extraction effeciency (im not even talking about effeciency here). Trust me when I say that a GTR with TUNE only will NOT reach 800hp.
And the statement you quoted said tune/mod. There are plenty of 800hp GT-R's running around, without any major engine work - perhaps some injectors, wastegate actuators, exhaust, tune, etc..., but no internals.
Again, if you actually had real information - I think you would actually stop posting about a subject you are obviously so clueless about.
Your posts do not enlighten anyone here.
#49
09-17-2009 | 12:58 PM
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Hmmm last time I checked what you just posted concurred with him. He simply said 800 hp is not possible just with a tune and a boost increase he never said it took internals. And it seems you have agreed with him.
#50
09-17-2009 | 01:17 PM
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So damn far from standard. That tune on a Cobb AP is described as 'custom' but is probably better described as 'experimental'. Many people are getting a Cobb AP tune and then changing the pipework. This in turn changes the response of the engine in terms of lag and boost threshold and before long you're running high boost and high AFR in the transition regions and hence you have problems (on any car).
There's 2 recipes for failure (not saying which is right here).
1) A tuner that doesn't know their **** from their elbow.
2) A user who doesn't have a basic understanding of the affects of modifications. I.e. they get a tune for a given engine configuration and then change the configuration such that a safe tune is no longer safe.
Unfortunately the GTR has cult status in the tuner world and being relatively cheap lots of people have them and lots of people mod them, and lots of them don't know what they're doing. Get a sensible tune/mod and you can safely run 800hp. Get a stupid one and you'll fail at half that.
There's 2 recipes for failure (not saying which is right here).
1) A tuner that doesn't know their **** from their elbow.
2) A user who doesn't have a basic understanding of the affects of modifications. I.e. they get a tune for a given engine configuration and then change the configuration such that a safe tune is no longer safe.
Unfortunately the GTR has cult status in the tuner world and being relatively cheap lots of people have them and lots of people mod them, and lots of them don't know what they're doing. Get a sensible tune/mod and you can safely run 800hp. Get a stupid one and you'll fail at half that.
Achieving 800hp takes more than just a tune and boost increase. Increase the boost enough and your outside the turbo, intercooler and exhaust extraction effeciency (im not even talking about effeciency here). Trust me when I say that a GTR with TUNE only will NOT reach 800hp.
And the statement you quoted said tune/mod. There are plenty of 800hp GT-R's running around, without any major engine work - perhaps some injectors, wastegate actuators, exhaust, tune, etc..., but no internals.
Again, if you actually had real information - I think you would actually stop posting about a subject you are obviously so clueless about.
Your posts do not enlighten anyone here.
Again, if you actually had real information - I think you would actually stop posting about a subject you are obviously so clueless about.
Your posts do not enlighten anyone here.
The original post is correct, and did not need any other clarification.
Last edited by jaspergtr; 09-17-2009 at 01:23 PM.
#51
09-17-2009 | 01:37 PM
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This is turning into a battle over semantics, but the point is that getting 800 hp isn't going to happen without changing the turbos which is not just a bolt on project considering all of the other mods that go along with it and the exhaust modifications. No internals, but not just a tune and a mod simplicity like he made it seem.
Neither posts are wrong per se, though BD- left out a TON of information and considering he's a mag guy and not a real car guy you can't assume he knew better, but neither are completely wrong in a sense either. And not directly related in terms of verbage.
Neither posts are wrong per se, though BD- left out a TON of information and considering he's a mag guy and not a real car guy you can't assume he knew better, but neither are completely wrong in a sense either. And not directly related in terms of verbage.
#52
09-17-2009 | 05:02 PM
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I believe in voting with your hard earned money not spending hours on the internet debating about which is the better car, especially those that spend hours defending a car that they don't own or drive themselves!
#53
09-17-2009 | 05:27 PM
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This is turning into a battle over semantics, but the point is that getting 800 hp isn't going to happen without changing the turbos which is not just a bolt on project considering all of the other mods that go along with it and the exhaust modifications. No internals, but not just a tune and a mod simplicity like he made it seem.
Neither posts are wrong per se, though BD- left out a TON of information and considering he's a mag guy and not a real car guy you can't assume he knew better, but neither are completely wrong in a sense either. And not directly related in terms of verbage.
Neither posts are wrong per se, though BD- left out a TON of information and considering he's a mag guy and not a real car guy you can't assume he knew better, but neither are completely wrong in a sense either. And not directly related in terms of verbage.
That doesn't seem as much fun.
#54
09-19-2009 | 07:07 PM
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News Just In
ZR1 Supertest Lap Time - 7:38
#55
09-19-2009 | 07:37 PM
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lol! I saw that...
@ 'Ring
ZR-1 7:38
GT-R 7:38
Let the conspiracy theories continue - Chevy took a ringer ZR-1 to the 'Ring...
Or everybody who wasn't there for any of these tests just shut the f*ck up.
posted on another forum:
ZR-1/GT-R
Hockenheimring - 1:09,7 / 1:10,7
Wet Handling Course - 1:35,8 / 1:32,4
@ 'Ring
ZR-1 7:38
GT-R 7:38
Let the conspiracy theories continue - Chevy took a ringer ZR-1 to the 'Ring...
Or everybody who wasn't there for any of these tests just shut the f*ck up.
posted on another forum:
ZR-1/GT-R
Hockenheimring - 1:09,7 / 1:10,7
Wet Handling Course - 1:35,8 / 1:32,4
#56
09-19-2009 | 08:31 PM
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VIDEO: Nissan GT-R files down 'Ring time to 7:26.70
by Chris Shunk (RSS feed) on Jul 10th 2009 at 9:34AM
We're starting to get the feeling Nissan is a permanent fixture at the Nürburgring, as the duo of GT-R and driver Toshio Suzuki keep coming up with new times at the famed German racetrack. Back in April, the former F1 driver took a revised GT-R through the 'Ring in 7:27:56, prompting Porsche to call Balderdash, saying that a stock GT-R isn't nearly that fast. Now Suzuki and a right-hand drive Godzilla teamed up to produce an even better time of 7:26.70, and taped it all nice and official so they can show the world.
After the jump is video proof of the speed and agility of the infamous GT-R, being driven by one of the 'Ring's few true masters. The video contains the full 7:26.70 of Suzuki going full-tilt with what looks like just enough fuel to get across the finish line, and an engine constantly in the 6,000-7,000 RPM range from start to finish.
If you think you've seen one too many 'Ring laps, take it from us that the last 30 seconds is incredible. Suzuki goes all-out to get the best time possible, and from the vantage point of the in-car camera, we feel like we're right there next to him -- except we find ourselves feeling for the brake while Suzuki keeps his foot on the gas.
Video:
by Chris Shunk (RSS feed) on Jul 10th 2009 at 9:34AM
We're starting to get the feeling Nissan is a permanent fixture at the Nürburgring, as the duo of GT-R and driver Toshio Suzuki keep coming up with new times at the famed German racetrack. Back in April, the former F1 driver took a revised GT-R through the 'Ring in 7:27:56, prompting Porsche to call Balderdash, saying that a stock GT-R isn't nearly that fast. Now Suzuki and a right-hand drive Godzilla teamed up to produce an even better time of 7:26.70, and taped it all nice and official so they can show the world.
After the jump is video proof of the speed and agility of the infamous GT-R, being driven by one of the 'Ring's few true masters. The video contains the full 7:26.70 of Suzuki going full-tilt with what looks like just enough fuel to get across the finish line, and an engine constantly in the 6,000-7,000 RPM range from start to finish.
If you think you've seen one too many 'Ring laps, take it from us that the last 30 seconds is incredible. Suzuki goes all-out to get the best time possible, and from the vantage point of the in-car camera, we feel like we're right there next to him -- except we find ourselves feeling for the brake while Suzuki keeps his foot on the gas.
Video:
#57
09-19-2009 | 08:34 PM
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lol! I saw that...
@ 'Ring
ZR-1 7:38
GT-R 7:38
Let the conspiracy theories continue - Chevy took a ringer ZR-1 to the 'Ring...
Or everybody who wasn't there for any of these tests just shut the f*ck up.
posted on another forum:
ZR-1/GT-R
Hockenheimring - 1:09,7 / 1:10,7
Wet Handling Course - 1:35,8 / 1:32,4
@ 'Ring
ZR-1 7:38
GT-R 7:38
Let the conspiracy theories continue - Chevy took a ringer ZR-1 to the 'Ring...
Or everybody who wasn't there for any of these tests just shut the f*ck up.
posted on another forum:
ZR-1/GT-R
Hockenheimring - 1:09,7 / 1:10,7
Wet Handling Course - 1:35,8 / 1:32,4
All this shows is something I've said before, #1 Horst isn't very good in Corvettes or American cars period (unless there were bad conditions). And #2 Nissan is the only car that has prototypes tested as opposed to cars that have already been released.
7:38 by Nissan was the only time set with a car that was out already.
7:29 was set by a half US, Half J-Jspec Version.
7:26 was set by a Euro version before it came out.
7:38 by Sport Auto was also set by a car that wasn't out yet, go figure.
Hence no way to tell if the actual production cars (or maybe more than 1 or 2 to sooth Nissan's conscience) resemble the ring cars in which the US spec we know was not a production car.
#58
09-19-2009 | 08:41 PM
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^ lol! I know, man...
It's become an obsession to some.
It's become an obsession to some.
#59
09-19-2009 | 08:47 PM
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Just thought I'd share with the class...
#60
09-19-2009 | 09:15 PM
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Comon Jasper, you know that's not going to happen.
All this shows is something I've said before, #1 Horst isn't very good in Corvettes or American cars period (unless there were bad conditions). And #2 Nissan is the only car that has prototypes tested as opposed to cars that have already been released.
7:38 by Nissan was the only time set with a car that was out already.
7:29 was set by a half US, Half J-Jspec Version.
7:26 was set by a Euro version before it came out.
7:38 by Sport Auto was also set by a car that wasn't out yet, go figure.
Hence no way to tell if the actual production cars (or maybe more than 1 or 2 to sooth Nissan's conscience) resemble the ring cars in which the US spec we know was not a production car.
All this shows is something I've said before, #1 Horst isn't very good in Corvettes or American cars period (unless there were bad conditions). And #2 Nissan is the only car that has prototypes tested as opposed to cars that have already been released.
7:38 by Nissan was the only time set with a car that was out already.
7:29 was set by a half US, Half J-Jspec Version.
7:26 was set by a Euro version before it came out.
7:38 by Sport Auto was also set by a car that wasn't out yet, go figure.
Hence no way to tell if the actual production cars (or maybe more than 1 or 2 to sooth Nissan's conscience) resemble the ring cars in which the US spec we know was not a production car.
The Sportauto test was conducted in June 09 in a LHD EuroSpec GT-R, 3 months after LHD EuroSpec GT-R's were being delivered to their German owners.
So what exactly was it about the GT-R that Sportauto used that "wasn't out yet" ? And why did SA wait till June 09 to Supertest a car that has been sold in Japan since December 07 ?
Furthermore the GT-R that Sportauto used was a staggering 12km/h slower than the ZR1 at Dottinger Hohe and still went on to post an identical lap time!!!
I'm interested to hear your ringer theory in light of this specific result.