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AMS GTR E-Flashing Official Release

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  #1  
Old 01-21-2010, 04:15 PM
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AMS GTR E-Flashing Official Release

I've been fielding quite a few questions from customers recently who are completely unaware that we do E-flashes for the GTR, as well as On-Site tuning with the AccessPort. I've made an official release of it for you here!

http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/ams-gt-...e-flashing.html


Using COBB AccessPORT we are able to optimize your fuel and timing curves to extract as much safe, usable HP and torque as possible. We are also able to raise the fuel cut on the factory ECU for those pushing the limits on the factory hardware. In addition to this we will also modify your cam timing on both your intake an exhaust cams for quicker spool up and maximum power, without sacrificing drivability.

As much as 80+ WHP and 100+ WTQ gains can be seen from Stage 0! Almost 100 HP at the crank!

Your tune will be the latest, and most enabled file that is currently available. We have the most current files as they are released, this includes the new v2.0 files that will have the proportional gain boost control system!

We are able to control your boost while utilizing either your stock solenoid, or with any other boost controller of your choice. There will be no check engine lights set because of the installation of an aftermarket boost controller, or any other system on the car. The AP allows us to turn off all engine related service lights!

As always at AMS, we will not sacrifice safety, reliability or drivability when tuning your car. We will however guarantee a very large smile on your face when it’s all said and done!

In a nutshell stage 0 Turns your stock GTR into what it should have been when you drove it off the dealers lot!

Features
  • Intake and exhaust cam timing are optimized for best spool-up, drivability and top-end power
  • Ignition timing is optimized and smoothed
  • Fueling is adjusted to meet the engine's requirements
  • Boost wastegate duty cycle is optimized to the specific vehicle, and smoothed to eliminate drivability issues, while maintaining a safe boost level
  • Quicker spool up and maximum power output
  • Safety, reliability and drivability are maintained
For E-tunes we need the following information:
  • Which market is the car from (jdm, edm, usdm)
  • Serial number on the back of the ap unit
  • Modification list
  • What octane fuel will be used
If you do not already have a Cobb Access port system you can purchase one directly from AMS with your new Stage 0 Map already loaded in!

Looking for a retune for your latest part addition? We have you covered!
AMS also provides remote tuning services for all varieties of modified GT-R’s. Just give us a call and we will be happy to tailor a map to your liking for your list of modifications!
 
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:15 PM
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Here are some typical results that you may find with your AMS tuning.

Here is a car that had
Full, downpipe back exhaust
GFB BOV's
Forge WG actuators with the red springs
HKS EVC 6 boost controller
Cobb AP with AMS custom tuning

Here is one with
Challenge Race Y pipe
K&N filters
Eisenmann Race Exahuast
Cobb Accessport

**showing the difference between the stock tune and the final result**
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?sh...c=33575&hl=
Here is a thread from and over-seas customer with some great v-box results:

Purchased the E-tune from AMS yesterday.Received the file from CHRIS today and loaded to the car.
Result is :OMG: wow...The car definitely pulling harder overrall than COBB stage 2..
My car only has midpipe+catback and HKS air filter plus HKS #9 spark plugs.

I had atteched the V-BOX 30-100mph testing I just done tonight.It almost 0.4 secs faster than COBB stage 2 93oct.

I ve also compared the 60-100mph run time to my PORSCHE 997 TURBO EVT700(700hp) MANUAL.Suprisely as fast as 3.8sec!!Though
the 997tt include a bit shift time but thats how they aginesting in the race isnt it :clap:

Thanks AMS!!You guys did great job!

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=35355
Here is a car thats in the 10's with just:
AMS Downpipe
AMS Mid-Pipe
AMS Cat-back
Forge actuators
Tuned by Chris AMS on 93 octane
HKS bov kit (Just for sound)
That is it everything else stock

60'...1.691------ 60'....1.646
330...4.579------ 330...4.551
1/8...6.944------ 1/8...6.926
MPH...103.68------ MPH...103.72
1000...8.998------- 1000...8.984
1/4...1.736 ------- 1/4...10.689
MPH...130.42--------- MPH...130.23
 

Last edited by GT3 Chuck; 01-25-2010 at 12:44 PM.
  #3  
Old 01-25-2010, 10:24 AM
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More Results:

First, a GTR which is completely stock, other than a cat-back exhaust system, and an AP Tune.



Second, a GTR which has a full down-pipe back exhaust system, and an AP Tune



Third, this GTR has a few bolt-ons, and stock turbos. Full exhaust, Forge WGA's, AAM intakes, and Upgraded BOV's.


Fourth, they love to do quarter mile runs on their dyno in PR, and the customer wanted to do it... so I did... haha. Here is the data from that!

 
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:02 PM
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For best comparison between different dyno charts, and as tough as it is to compare between different dyno types, may I suggest posting charts in SAE correction factor? I have gotten a lot of calls lately about "this dyno chart says this and this", however they may or may not be in the same CF as the others.

No offense mean bud, just thought we could clear it up for everyone for the good of the community.

Good work guys, keep it up!

 

Last edited by Neil Switzer; 01-25-2010 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Neil Switzer
For best comparison between different dyno charts, and as tough as it is to compare between different dyno types, may I suggest posting charts in SAE correction factor? I have gotten a lot of calls lately about "this dyno chart says this and this", however they may or may not be in the same CF as the others.

No offense mean bud, just thought we could clear it up for everyone for the good of the community.

Good work guys, keep it up!

No offense taken! However in our opinion its not quite that simple. True understanding of dyno numbers across the country and different brands is a very hard thing to convey to a customer. I feel the best we can do is educate them as much as possible. Correction factors are largely guesswork anyways. I also try to include as much data as I can so that everyone has a good point of reference, but this is not always possible. FWIW, we do all of our 'testing' in SAE.

I wrote something on the subject some time ago.
There are many misconceptions from the internet about dyno charts, dyno numbers, dyno methods and what they actually mean. The main reason a dynamometer can be useful to us is in the form of a tool, which we can use to properly calibrate a vehicle or engine. The second use of the dyno appears to be for bragging rights. There is no problem with using the dyno for these purposes, however, in order to make an accurate assessment of the data that is presented to you, several things MUST be observed.

The first major misconception of dyno chart numbers is that they can be used as a universal benchmark to measure any cars performance and be 99% accurate. True, the dyno is accurate in the numbers that it does in fact spit out, however, what has been done to influence these numbers?

The value that the dyno calculates has user definable parameters and takes measurements from the surrounding area in order to calculate the numbers. The key word here is ‘calculate’. Whenever there is a calculation and there are variables involved, there is quite a bit of room for error! The fact of the matter is, when the dyno is setup and originally installed, there are ‘calibration’ numbers put into the dyno computer, which effects the way the dyno reads and calculates the information that it receives. On all dynamometers, there is a temperature sensor, humidity sensor and a barometric pressure sensor, which detect the current condition. Obviously, at a higher altitude, the car will be ingesting less dense air and the car will make less horsepower. There are several correction factors that every dyno comes equipped from the factory with.

SAE calculation is meant to be a standard by which you would be able to measure all cars using the information that is listed above. This standard takes the conditions that are currently observed where the dyno is located and then processes the information in order to correct the data for benchmarking purposes. Sadly, this correction factor is rarely used by anyone for anything. Most of the reason why it has never gained any popularity is the fact that it will normally lower the values when compared with that of the uncorrected or standard method. Here is the actual SAE correction formula:

CF= 1.18 * (29.235/Bdo) * (square root ((To+273)/298) – 0.18)
To = Intake air temperature in Centigrade
Bdo = Dry ambient absolute barometric pressure in inches of mercury

Due to the nature of a forced induction car, the correction factor actually needs a couple more variables in order to be properly calculated and give the most repeatable results over the widest range. This is not incorporated into any current dynamometer software that I am aware of. The higher the altitude that the dyno facility is at, the more this second correction factor will be necessary. The normal SAE formula is intended for an N/A car, whereas a turbo vehicle has the benefit of forcing air into the intake system. Due to its ability to force air through the charge pipes or manifold, the correction factor will be less than that of an N/A car at higher altitudes. For a dyno facitlity that is close the sea level, this calculation is not necessary. It should be noted that I am using altitude as a way to explain the change in barometric pressure, which will ultimately be the main effect of a separate calculation for a forced inducted car.

A good example of the correction factor needed would be the compairison of a 100hp N/A car and a 100hp forced inducted vehicle. For example purposes only, we can dumb down the equation for easy understanding. We can use two locations, one at sea level and one at about a 4500 foot altitiude. The atmospheric air pressure is 14.69psi at sea level and 12.46psi at 4500 feet.

An N/A car makes 100hp at sea level while ingesting 14.69psi of the atmospheric pressure.
This same N/A car will make about 86 horsepower at 4500 feet while ingesting 12.46 psi of air pressure.
For this N/A car a correction factor of about 16% is needed.

A forced inducted car makes 100hp at sea level while ingesting not only the 14.69psi but in addition, 10psi (gauge pressure) of boost. The absolute pressure in the manifold will be 24.69psi.
This same car will ingest 12.46psi of pressure at 4500 feet in addtion to the 10psi (gauge pressure) for a total of 22.46psi. This car will make 91 horsepower.
For this forced induction car a correction factor of only 10% is necessary.

If the correction factor from the n/a car above is used with this forced induction car, the benchmark is clearly not accurate at 106hp. While the differences are not that great at this lower hp level, the will increase exponentially with a vehicle producing more horsepower.

Two major types of dynamometer are currently in use today are the inertial and the brake type. The inertial dyno is exactly as the name implies. It uses the inertia of a known mass, the drum, and the rate of the drum’s acceleration in order to calculate power. This type of dynamometer has a couple of strong points, and a couple of weak points to its operation and design. Firstly, the inertial dyno should always be able to produce very repeatable results even across different dynamometers in different areas. Because the calculations include the acceleration of a known mass with no other considerations, with the correct math applied to the collected data, you should be able to compute the same result on any dyno. Because there are no outside factors affecting the readings you will not have any ‘calibration’ numbers that you will need to enter into the dyno. The inertial dynamometer works very well in the right hands, and is very effective. If there was a way to hold the car at a specific rpm or speed and tune the vehicle it would be even better.

Enter the brake type dynamometer. Using this dynamometer with its built in resistance of either electrical or hydraulic type, we are able to hold the vehicle at a specific load and quickly dial in the correct ignition timing and fuel required. This is the main advantage over any other type of dyno. Because of its increased ability, there is also extra room for error. This dyno with its load holding capability will only be as good as the operator who is using it. Vehicles are not often at 5600 RPMS and 30lbs of boost for more than a second at a time. When trying to use the load dyno to calibrate this area, the dyno can be very dangerous and there is a potential risk of engine damage.

These brake style dynamometers incorporate 'calibration specifics' in order for them to read correctly when they are initially set up. Electric style brake dynos use a dc voltage signal from the roller and the brake in order to compute the torque exerted on the roller. The dc output of the load cell is subject to electrical noise, variable resistance due to temperature and errors in the analog to digital process. For these reasons the output from these dynamometers are less valid for comparison to others. Over time these types of systems 'wear in' and will need to be re-calibrated for optimal accuracy. Their accuracy to themselves is good and they are great tuning tools, but their design may lend to confusion or frustration when compared to other results.

It is easy to see with the above information how you could have an easy 10-30 + hp swing in numbers for the same exact setup when compared across a different dyno, with a different correction factor on a different day. It would be easy to modify the numbers by tampering with the dyno electronics, or changing the calibration for the dyno setup. Most of the time, these are not problems that anyone has to worry about, but key factors which should be taken into account when analyzing data.

A dyno is a great tool for tuning. When you make a change on a car, or bolt on a new part, you can easily compare your old numbers to your new numbers on the same dyno. The only real benchmark for horsepower is what your car will end up making in comparison to other cars that have been on that specific dyno! Using the information above, I hope that it is a little bit clearer what the advertised dyno numbers actually mean. Using this information will help us all find the next best modification for any car that we may be modifying.
 

Last edited by AMS; 01-25-2010 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:06 PM
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I understand your point of view... and your points are partially valid. However, Tym has told me that we've always seen greater consistency in comparison numbers between our dealers around the world using the SAE correction factor than with STD or Uncorrected so that's why we tend to use it. If you are near sea level and you're showing STD numbers, your results will always appear to be better than someone at altitude, etc. I asked Tym about this and he feels that even though the turbocharger can "adjust" the pressure that the engine sees, it must also work harder to do the same work, etc. The fact is, you are correct... if you want to see the impact of your upgrades on a chassis dyno, you're well advised to use the same dyno for benchmarks and final results. However, it is common for the consumers on these forums to try to compare numbers and the SAE method (while less flattering), has shown us the best consistency in comparison from dynos around the world. That helps us make sure that what we produce here is replicated elsewhere within reasonable limits. When I asked Tym to post some charts in STD, he has said time and again that we could show much better numbers posting in STD vs. SAE, but he stubbornly refuses to do it for all of the reasons mentioned above. We also like to think that if we quote conservatively on our outputs using the SAE numbers on the dynojet that if the cars are dyno'd on less generous dynos the numbers won't be too far away. It's never a good thing when a customer is handed a STD correction dyno sheet from a dynojet and then ends up dynoing his car on another machine. That's a phone call we just don't want to get.

Again, no offense... just thought we should share our point of view. I know that you guys have posted the same charts in both STD and SAE... perhaps you should do that every time since it's so easy to do. We were just suggesting that since most of us are posting SAE sheets that it might make sense for the community for you to do so as well. Not trying to start trouble... just trying to make things consistent for everyone.
 
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:39 PM
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Your points are definitely 100% valid. However, after having to wrestle with this ourselves for a very long time in other markets, we find that ultimately, that most people pay absolutely no attention to detail when looking at dyno charts. In this community especially, dynocharts are viewed as mostly useless because of the wide variations that exist. There is a large focus on:

Flying Miles
V-Box times
Quarter Mile trap speeds

These are the results that we will be trying to convey the most because there is less 'smoke and mirrors' associated with them, and are more widely accepted. We only post our dynocharts so that our customers can have a loose point of reference to the other products that we produce. Most of the dynocharts also have more than one run, so that a direct comparison can be made. If numbers from a different correction factor are requested, they are readily divulged. We simply pick the most advantageous correction factor for the specific test at hand. This correction factor may emphasize a particular power gain, or may make the weather change between tests more realistic and is always used to convey the correct results as we see them.

In summation, you will most likely see STD, SAE, and Uncorrected Dynocharts from us. We will attempt to use each one in an appropriate manner for the situation.
 
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