Installing an LSD
#17
02-26-2008, 10:45 AM
Installing LSD is not easy. Cantrell and Fordalh outsource it out to a guy in Oregon. You're looking at $1500 lalor. Everyone in Porsche Motorsports uses Guard LSD and that's what I had in installed in my GT2. Quaife is not up nearly as good as Guard.
#18
02-26-2008, 11:21 PM
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 148
Rep Power: 32 
JIC Cross suspension.
I know Guard is "better" and is a true LSD, not TBD. They are apparently the race part. Quaife is supposed to require less maintenance and is more friendly on the street. $1500 sounds pretty steep.
I know Guard is "better" and is a true LSD, not TBD. They are apparently the race part. Quaife is supposed to require less maintenance and is more friendly on the street. $1500 sounds pretty steep.
#19
03-08-2008, 09:36 PM
I'm seriously considering a guard LSD and new gear ratios. I think, for me, a true LSD is a better idea than a TB-LSD. Just have to try and figure out what lock up ratios to get.
http://www.guardtransmission.com/lsd_info.htm
Generally speaking, this is what most customers opt for:
(a) Street / autocross - Torque-biasing
(b) Street / track - Torque-biasing if light-duty track use, with stock suspension. 40% limited-slip if car has stiff suspension or power upgrades.
(c) Track only - 80% limited-slip differential or spool.
Limited-slip differentials provide lock-up on both acceleration and deceleration. The amount of lock-up on accel and decel can be adjusted by selection of the internal plate sequence. Lock-up on deceleration allows aggressive entry into a turn and late braking, reasons why all Pro race teams (that we are aware of) utilize LSDs, rather than TBDs.
Torque-biasing differentials provide lock-up on acceleration only. The amount of lock-up (5-80%) increases as the amount of torque increases. On deceleration, lock-up is negligible, making the TBD the ideal diff for the slower speed turns of autocross. (In the same slower-speed turns, an 80% LSD would most certainly cause understeer.)
A torque-biasing differential performs like an open diff whenever one of the two drive wheels lifts off the ground. Lock-up and traction are lost until both drive wheels are again planted firmly on the ground.
There seem to be two very distinct groups, one favoring the use of LSD, and the other favoring the use of TBDs. We at Guard Transmission try to avoid making the decision for the customer. We would rather our customer confer with the race shop or transmission builder performing the installation, in order to make an informed choice.
Our primary role is simply to provide the marketplace with the highest quality examples of each and every differential type, all backed with a full 100% money-back guarantee.
Thank you for your interest --
Paul Guard
http://www.guardtransmission.com/lsd_info.htm
Generally speaking, this is what most customers opt for:
(a) Street / autocross - Torque-biasing
(b) Street / track - Torque-biasing if light-duty track use, with stock suspension. 40% limited-slip if car has stiff suspension or power upgrades.
(c) Track only - 80% limited-slip differential or spool.
Limited-slip differentials provide lock-up on both acceleration and deceleration. The amount of lock-up on accel and decel can be adjusted by selection of the internal plate sequence. Lock-up on deceleration allows aggressive entry into a turn and late braking, reasons why all Pro race teams (that we are aware of) utilize LSDs, rather than TBDs.
Torque-biasing differentials provide lock-up on acceleration only. The amount of lock-up (5-80%) increases as the amount of torque increases. On deceleration, lock-up is negligible, making the TBD the ideal diff for the slower speed turns of autocross. (In the same slower-speed turns, an 80% LSD would most certainly cause understeer.)
A torque-biasing differential performs like an open diff whenever one of the two drive wheels lifts off the ground. Lock-up and traction are lost until both drive wheels are again planted firmly on the ground.
There seem to be two very distinct groups, one favoring the use of LSD, and the other favoring the use of TBDs. We at Guard Transmission try to avoid making the decision for the customer. We would rather our customer confer with the race shop or transmission builder performing the installation, in order to make an informed choice.
Our primary role is simply to provide the marketplace with the highest quality examples of each and every differential type, all backed with a full 100% money-back guarantee.
Thank you for your interest --
Paul Guard
#20
03-21-2008, 09:32 PM
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 148
Rep Power: 32
Just got back from the track today. The suspension rocks!
I met Chris of Chris' German Auto Service while there. A couple people said his shop would be a good one for installing a differential. What do we know about him?
He did say that if I'm tracking with any regularity that a Guard LSD would be better than the Quaife TBD. But I only track 6-10 times a year and I got a hell of a deal on the Quaife from a friend. So I guess I'll just not lock up when I decelerate. In any case, I gotta get the thing installed.
I met Chris of Chris' German Auto Service while there. A couple people said his shop would be a good one for installing a differential. What do we know about him?
He did say that if I'm tracking with any regularity that a Guard LSD would be better than the Quaife TBD. But I only track 6-10 times a year and I got a hell of a deal on the Quaife from a friend. So I guess I'll just not lock up when I decelerate. In any case, I gotta get the thing installed.
#21
03-21-2008, 10:02 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Age: 41
Posts: 1,309
Rep Power: 70
Jeff,
Could you take a picture from under your car, where the halfshafts go into the diff housing?
Are you going to stick with the stock gearing as well? Because if you change your ring gear, you also need to change your pinion gear.
Could you take a picture from under your car, where the halfshafts go into the diff housing?
Are you going to stick with the stock gearing as well? Because if you change your ring gear, you also need to change your pinion gear.
#22
03-21-2008, 10:24 PM
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 148
Rep Power: 32
Uh, maybe? I don't really know what I'm doing under there. If you just want to see what it looks like, there's a great article on doing exactly this on CC.Net http://www.caymanclub.net/reviews/sh...duct=119&cat=4
This is far beyond my mechanical capabilities.
I'm keeping the stock gearing. I am secure in my pinionhood.
This is far beyond my mechanical capabilities.
I'm keeping the stock gearing. I am secure in my pinionhood.
#23
03-21-2008, 11:53 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: inside someone warm
Posts: 7,059
Rep Power: 380
Just how much of a price difference is there between the Guards and the Quaife LSD? I would not short change things in a car like a Porsche. I'd wait until you can afford the Guards if I were you.
#24
03-22-2008, 12:50 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Age: 41
Posts: 1,309
Rep Power: 70
Can't go wrong with Quaife honestly, they're top knotch.
The install doesn't look too bad, I'd offer to do it for free if I had a lift. Once you have the halfshaft off, it looks like there's plenty of access to it. Those guys should give out the torque specs though.
Here's what my diff looked like before I installed my new one.. (you're looking at the pinion gear)
The install doesn't look too bad, I'd offer to do it for free if I had a lift. Once you have the halfshaft off, it looks like there's plenty of access to it. Those guys should give out the torque specs though.
Here's what my diff looked like before I installed my new one.. (you're looking at the pinion gear)
#27
03-22-2008, 09:21 AM
I'm seriously considering a guard LSD and new gear ratios. I think, for me, a true LSD is a better idea than a TB-LSD. Just have to try and figure out what lock up ratios to get.
http://www.guardtransmission.com/lsd_info.htm
Generally speaking, this is what most customers opt for:
(a) Street / autocross - Torque-biasing
(b) Street / track - Torque-biasing if light-duty track use, with stock suspension. 40% limited-slip if car has stiff suspension or power upgrades.
(c) Track only - 80% limited-slip differential or spool.
Limited-slip differentials provide lock-up on both acceleration and deceleration. The amount of lock-up on accel and decel can be adjusted by selection of the internal plate sequence. Lock-up on deceleration allows aggressive entry into a turn and late braking, reasons why all Pro race teams (that we are aware of) utilize LSDs, rather than TBDs.
Torque-biasing differentials provide lock-up on acceleration only. The amount of lock-up (5-80%) increases as the amount of torque increases. On deceleration, lock-up is negligible, making the TBD the ideal diff for the slower speed turns of autocross. (In the same slower-speed turns, an 80% LSD would most certainly cause understeer.)
A torque-biasing differential performs like an open diff whenever one of the two drive wheels lifts off the ground. Lock-up and traction are lost until both drive wheels are again planted firmly on the ground.
There seem to be two very distinct groups, one favoring the use of LSD, and the other favoring the use of TBDs. We at Guard Transmission try to avoid making the decision for the customer. We would rather our customer confer with the race shop or transmission builder performing the installation, in order to make an informed choice.
Our primary role is simply to provide the marketplace with the highest quality examples of each and every differential type, all backed with a full 100% money-back guarantee.
Thank you for your interest --
Paul Guard
http://www.guardtransmission.com/lsd_info.htm
Generally speaking, this is what most customers opt for:
(a) Street / autocross - Torque-biasing
(b) Street / track - Torque-biasing if light-duty track use, with stock suspension. 40% limited-slip if car has stiff suspension or power upgrades.
(c) Track only - 80% limited-slip differential or spool.
Limited-slip differentials provide lock-up on both acceleration and deceleration. The amount of lock-up on accel and decel can be adjusted by selection of the internal plate sequence. Lock-up on deceleration allows aggressive entry into a turn and late braking, reasons why all Pro race teams (that we are aware of) utilize LSDs, rather than TBDs.
Torque-biasing differentials provide lock-up on acceleration only. The amount of lock-up (5-80%) increases as the amount of torque increases. On deceleration, lock-up is negligible, making the TBD the ideal diff for the slower speed turns of autocross. (In the same slower-speed turns, an 80% LSD would most certainly cause understeer.)
A torque-biasing differential performs like an open diff whenever one of the two drive wheels lifts off the ground. Lock-up and traction are lost until both drive wheels are again planted firmly on the ground.
There seem to be two very distinct groups, one favoring the use of LSD, and the other favoring the use of TBDs. We at Guard Transmission try to avoid making the decision for the customer. We would rather our customer confer with the race shop or transmission builder performing the installation, in order to make an informed choice.
Our primary role is simply to provide the marketplace with the highest quality examples of each and every differential type, all backed with a full 100% money-back guarantee.
Thank you for your interest --
Paul Guard
#29
03-22-2008, 12:11 PM
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 148
Rep Power: 32
Well, there's "afford" and then there's "makes sense". A Quaife is about $1450 shipped from the UK. Guard is ~$2500 + shipping. The way I understand it, there isn't a quality difference between Quaife and Guard, its functionality. The difference being "Do you want to pay nearly twice as much for the Guard to have some diff lock on deceleration, and have to have it serviced every few years, or not?" Yes, ultimately, the Guard is better for track use. But I go to the track less than 10 times a year and got the Quaife for a quarter of what the Guard costs.
So, I'm keeping it. I seriously need to find a local shop to install it. Thanks Mitchel and no offense, but Cantrell ships this kind of work out because he "doesn't have the right tools....". There are things like "backlash" and "tolerances" and other mechanical terms I don't completely grasp, to be dealt with. I'd prefer to have it done somewhere I'd have some recourse should the job go badly. Chris' seems like a pretty serious outfit. They were doing Motec tuning on their race car at the track. JR from Proformance works at their shop and said they'd be great. I don't know anything about Fordahl, but their site looks about as bad as a MySpace.
So, I'm keeping it. I seriously need to find a local shop to install it. Thanks Mitchel and no offense, but Cantrell ships this kind of work out because he "doesn't have the right tools....". There are things like "backlash" and "tolerances" and other mechanical terms I don't completely grasp, to be dealt with. I'd prefer to have it done somewhere I'd have some recourse should the job go badly. Chris' seems like a pretty serious outfit. They were doing Motec tuning on their race car at the track. JR from Proformance works at their shop and said they'd be great. I don't know anything about Fordahl, but their site looks about as bad as a MySpace.
#30
03-22-2008, 07:51 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Age: 41
Posts: 1,309
Rep Power: 70 Well, there's "afford" and then there's "makes sense". A Quaife is about $1450 shipped from the UK. Guard is ~$2500 + shipping. The way I understand it, there isn't a quality difference between Quaife and Guard, its functionality. The difference being "Do you want to pay nearly twice as much for the Guard to have some diff lock on deceleration, and have to have it serviced every few years, or not?" Yes, ultimately, the Guard is better for track use. But I go to the track less than 10 times a year and got the Quaife for a quarter of what the Guard costs.
So, I'm keeping it. I seriously need to find a local shop to install it. Thanks Mitchel and no offense, but Cantrell ships this kind of work out because he "doesn't have the right tools....". There are things like "backlash" and "tolerances" and other mechanical terms I don't completely grasp, to be dealt with. I'd prefer to have it done somewhere I'd have some recourse should the job go badly. Chris' seems like a pretty serious outfit. They were doing Motec tuning on their race car at the track. JR from Proformance works at their shop and said they'd be great. I don't know anything about Fordahl, but their site looks about as bad as a MySpace.
So, I'm keeping it. I seriously need to find a local shop to install it. Thanks Mitchel and no offense, but Cantrell ships this kind of work out because he "doesn't have the right tools....". There are things like "backlash" and "tolerances" and other mechanical terms I don't completely grasp, to be dealt with. I'd prefer to have it done somewhere I'd have some recourse should the job go badly. Chris' seems like a pretty serious outfit. They were doing Motec tuning on their race car at the track. JR from Proformance works at their shop and said they'd be great. I don't know anything about Fordahl, but their site looks about as bad as a MySpace.
If you got a new carrier bearing, you could do this in your own garage. I'd recommend a new ring gear and carrier bearing regardless of who does what, so it would be easier to swap in your open diff, should you ever sell it or trade it in.
After all of the work that Cantrell does on Porsches, I'm shocked that they haven't tackled something as simple as this install.
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