You made good points but not enough to bottom line the debate. just cause you haven;t heard anything doesn't mean you can draw conclusions. Sometimes people like to not show their cards until it's time to play them. Also, there are rich folks around the world you may not hear from. You're also using logic to draw conclusions. Nothing about car enthusiasts is logical. We spend hundreds of thousands when that money could used for more constructive endeavors. The Veyron isn't beautiful and it's bloated. It is fast and some people have laid out the cash for it. Surely, thr first tehnologicsal supercar from lexus can generate 500 sales at a pricetag less than half of the unattractive Veyron. I know Bugatti has history but who really cares about that when on a Sunday drive.
lastly, I too believe the LFA is overpriced but I think most cars are overpriced. Lexus and Toyota seem to know what they are doing. Who would have believed 20 years ago they would out sell the big 3. I think we should hold our extreme criticism until we see what shakes down.

 

I think it is kind of obnoxious for Lexus to treat the LF-A like it's an Enzo. I honestly think that Lexus "selecting" clients will come down to a verification of funds. "We have a series of questions to ask before you can have our LF-A. First, you seriously want one? Second, can you afford the lease payments and do you have the down payment? Third, you're not messing with us? You actually want this car?"

 

This was a good morning chuckle...

I can agree with you Ice on the point that nobody knows everybody. But think of it this way:
Does Tommy (hell, even does Jeremy, me) know someone with a Murci or even a couple? Yep.
How about a Porsche CGT? Yep, theres three or four of them around town and the owners are well known.
Ferrari 430 Scud? Yep...
Alfa 8C Competizione? Yeah. Sweet car...
Merc McLaren SLR? Another yes.

Those types of people are going to have to WANT this car, and nobody has been expressing interest. Sure there might be 500 people worldwide that are reclusive and don't act as part of the car community that would say YES to the LF-A, but remember Lexus is screening the owners of these things."You ain't famous, and you ain't known? Then get to the back of the line because you ain't good enough for our car..." This car isn't going to be sold to Joe Schmoe whose refi'd the house to pull out equity to make the payment. Lexus wouldn't stand for that (at least, thats what they're saying now). They want this car in the hands of a select group of people who they feel will be seen in it, and seen in the right circles. They want the nose is the air crown jealous that they couldn't even buy one. Maybe back when they came up with this idea, and the economy was ROARING, it made sense. Right now it just seems like a way for them to alienate the crowd that might have said yes, because if Lamborghini, Ferrari, Alfa, etc, were fine with taking the check and handing over the keys, WTF is up with Lexus saying that the person willing to spend more than a third of a million on a car needs to be APPROVED by them? The only approval necessary should be a call to verify funds on the check.

 

I posted this on a Lexus LFA form. We'll see what Lexus owners have to say or if my post stays up.

"I am new to this thread and this is my first post regarding the LFA. I've owned several Lexus including a GS300, LX450, SC430, and I currently own an LS460L. I also own an 08 RR Phantom, a Lamborghini LP640 Roadster, an H2 and I have an LP670-SV arriving this week. On one of the other forms there is a spirited debate regarding the LFA and the actual number they will sell, "lease" in the US. I honestly don't know of anyone in my car circles who plans to jump to the LFA and I think it would be helpful if the moderators here or someone could start a list of those who actually plan to buy one, and what they currently own. While I love the brand and I've defended it many times, I have my doubts about the LFA, mostly because of the price/value, and marketing/sales methods but that's just me."

 

Believe, I do understand and agree for the most part.
I just wanted to include that Lexus doesn't always do what seems the right way to go...but they are successful at whatever they seem to do. WHo would have thought that first ES250 and LS400 would turn into what they are today. Those were plain Jane cars. Nice and reliable but plain. But Lexus was smart to give that LS Mercedes cues but with superior reliability and undercut the price bigtime. A formule still employed with the current LS. It costs around $60K for the base and 90K for the top of the line long wheel base hybrid that kill the Benz in price and reliability. Now they are coming out with a supercar that isn't much superior in performance and could be better looking at a price above the competition. On top of that they are apparently being snobbish by preselecting the buyers. All risky stuff. But I won't ever second guess them again. Neither should anyone else.

 

Here are the differences- The Veyron is where it is because it's one of the fastest cars in the world and it's an amazing piece of technology. The SSC Ultimate Aero still holds the top speed title and they are still doing well building cars. The UA sells for around $750k, mostly to buyers overseas. In the $375k we have a base LP640 coup for a little more money that will smoke it, with one of the strongest exotic brand values in the world, second only to Ferrari. We also have the 458 about to roll out, and it too will stomp on it. So will most of the Gallardo variants. So now what? Buyers don't buy cars just for cool screens, and I'm sure it will be a technology marvel. It's just that I don't see the enthusiasm in the car community for writing a check for one as I see all over the place for other cars. As for holding out on the criticism, this is a CURRENT topic, that Lexus is "selecting" buyers right now. I still think they will "sell" no more than 20 in the US market and who knows at what price and terms, really.

Even though I own a Lexus, I don't defend all things Lexus. And, if I'm wrong about any of this, I have no problem saying it here.

 

Man oh man i skip one day on the computer and you guys go crazy....
A) if Tommy is ignorant i'm three times his ignorance....because i feel anyone that would spend 350k on a japanese machine that can be out done or equaled by it's nissan counterpart for 70k has to have their head cutoff. not examined. they need to be killed. so please Ice call me ignorant as well. The car is not attractive. The car has no sex appeal. Cars in this price range have to have it. I don't care if it will do zero to sixty in 1 second if it's ugly. Who wants it. Veyron while not attractive really to me has Exotic written all over it. It's also got a Bugati behind it. Over 100 years of building Cool cars. Lexus makes fantastic Sedans. They were brilliant when they came out with the $40k luxury car that was better than the $60k counterparts. For 10 years now plus they've slowly krept up to more expensive and kept all old customers and adding new ones every year. Why didn't they do that here? Drop a $110k exotic into the pool to play with 911's. crap even charge 150k. There they would have a market. Compete with Aston, Porche and undercut the Ferrari California. I wouldn't wager $1 buck on them selling 500 in that price range although 400 will still stay in Japan would be my guess.
2) I totally agree that the only thing Lexus will have to do on these cars are verify the finance's of any person that wants one.
C) Toyota already has a car celebrities like. It's called a Prius. Last time I looked it was cheaper than this. I bet Toyota even gave most of those Prius away to the Celebs driving them to increase sales.
D) Which Celebs and Famous like cars? Jay Leno....yes he loves em. He won't lease one. Possibly Lexus will give him one to push their car. Why not if they are losing 350k a copy or more what's another 350k lost. This might spur a few people to want one. Nick Cage another well known buy em for five minutes and sell em celeb won't lease one either. He doesn't keep em long enough and it doesn't fit his personality. So who are these Famous people driving em?
5) Tommy is right on. Where's the buzz? Where's the Hype. The only Buzz and Hype is coming from Lexus themselves. It will be interesting to see the response's he gets on the Lexus Forum. I'd join to find out for myself but I've been red flagged for my Leftus opinions on Everything The UA is the only thing I don't totally agree on. I don't get that car myself. I'm not sure actually how many they sell but I think that's a very overpriced car. So for 2010 I'm sorry Tommy I just disagree a touch on that. It really doesn't do much for me and your Lambo seems 100 times better of a car. Possibly that's why we've not seen a Owner occupied UA in this area. It's fast but too kit car like for me.
F) You want Hype in a Car go to Fchat and view the Owner /Soon to be Owner /want to be owner views about the 458. Probably 10 threads alone on this car. Personally for me it's not a great looking car. I hope much better looking in person. At 350k it will sell all. I'm not speculating here, they will sell all. I'm not one of them. I won't own one as I've stated many times but as Tommy pointed out, the Hype required to sell a car exists for the 458. Shiete the California appeared to have more haters than lovers and they've sold the crap out of those as well. Granted Ferrari has a better following than any other exotic maker but the Hype is what it takes to sell and create intrigue and Hype Ferrari has.

ok I'll go away for 3 more days and warmwilk i will pay you this buck when we get proof that the 500 lexi aren't sitting on dealer showroom floors like the SLR Mclaren did for so long. When Owners show up places with them I will agree I've lost the bet. If you want to back out of it I'm fine. I'll still pay you I hope you step up and pay when you are wrong. I've got car insurance to pay for and could use the cold hard cash

 

I guess I can't even guess as to why you would pick this car over the 458 Italia or the Mclaren MP4-C12? Or better yet a Phantom Drophead Coupe for Bentley Mulsanne if you prefer luxury cars.

 

For the most part, I agree with Tommy and Mark. The LF-A is ugly and way overpriced, albeit it is technically an amazing machine. However, I do not share your skepticism that they will not lease all of their units. I know you guys are well connected and are actual owners of exotica. No doubt your networks are not excited about this car and have no intentions on leasing or buying.

But your anecdotal evidence doesn't convince me that it is representative of the global market for this car. We are talking 500 units of a "supercar" from a well-known brand for a global market. There is a small percentage of the supercar market where money is no object and paying a couple hundred grand over what they should for a car is no big deal. It's just chump change for them. They will buy/lease just for the exclusivity. I will be one that will place my $1 on Toyota leasing every single unit.

 

Going through the thread, these are the bullets that distills the bulk of the discussion

• Boring, even ugly chassis design
• Too expensive!
• No brand cache
• Obtuse sales approach
• Only average/good performance in crowded field of exotic cars

Yep, I agree!

—Vic

 

The market is actually very small for exotics. Here are the numbers for the US for December and for the preceding twelve months:

Bentley 165 - 1,367 cars
Lamborghini 15 - 345 cars
Rolls Royce 17 - 326 cars
Ferrari 125 - 1,374 cars
Maybach 9 - 66 cars

I couldn't get the numbers for Aston Martin but I'll bet they are about even with Lamborghini.

 

All this hooplah over a fricking Toyota...What's the world coming too ?

 

You don't have Porsche on this exotic or not but I heard that Porsche NA sold 8 (total) 997 Turbos in December and 52 GT3's. This was only because of the 2010 New model.

 

I didn't include Porsche because the data I have doesn't split out all numbers for all models and it wouldn't mean anything in the context of something costing $375k. I was shooting for the $200k market and up to $500k.

As for the UA, you're right, but there is something going on that I can't talk about that's very cool so they can't be counted out. Of the cars they sell, the majority go to the Middle east where straight fast driving is important. I think they are here to stay, but I can't say much yet.

 

Yes and most TSA guys have lined up to buy them because of their math skills they think they sell for 50K.