Originally Posted by Targa Tim

I'm not sure if I totally agree with you, and I am a big Porsche fan myself.

If AWD is being offered in the M5, and I'm shopping for a sport sedan or SUV right now, then I definitely will take the M5 over PTT. I miss having a 5th seat and bigger trunk in the Panamera sometimes. The second best alternative will be Cayenne turbo.

Originally Posted by kip

I know how to subtract numbers, thank you. I am saying you cant pull numbers and compare inbetween pulls like you have, because in this case the turbos are spooled up. The M 5 has a small engine and big turbos, the ptts just the opposite. The M5 has been said to suffer from turbo lag, the PTTS has instant power like a NA engine. If you run the cars in reality 60- or 80- in reality the PTTS will pull ahead until the M5 big turbos spool up and then it is pulling back again. Real world is different than numbers from magazine. So until you have factual numbers, you cant say someone is faster. FACTUALLY in this test the PTTS is faster 0-100, 0-200 km/h and 0-400m, and the M5 is cheaper, all else is assumption. I also really don care if the M5 is faster at speeds 200 and up.

Originally Posted by kip

I know how to subtract numbers, thank you. I am saying you cant pull numbers and compare inbetween pulls like you have, because in this case the turbos are spooled up. The M 5 has a small engine and big turbos, the ptts just the opposite. The M5 has been said to suffer from turbo lag, the PTTS has instant power like a NA engine. If you run the cars in reality 60- or 80- in reality the PTTS will pull ahead until the M5 big turbos spool up and then it is pulling back again. Real world is different than numbers from magazine. So until you have factual numbers, you cant say someone is faster. FACTUALLY in this test the PTTS is faster 0-100, 0-200 km/h and 0-400m, and the M5 is cheaper, all else is assumption. I also really don care if the M5 is faster at speeds 200 and up.

Originally Posted by TMC CL65

Where you are getting your information about the turbo sizes? I have been looking for this information.

Tom

Originally Posted by kip

From here and there:

M5:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N63

PTTS:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...rs-manual.html

Originally Posted by dhh

I think there is really no comparison. If we all bought a car for strictly performance we would all own GT-R's.

It seems that everyone here has moved up the 4-door car food-chain BMW---> AMG---> Panamera----> ?

The BMW is invisible and will remain that way - the Panamera is unique and has great performance.

My biggest worry is what is my next car PTT-S or Rapide or some other car. The AMG's and M-cars are no longer even a consideration as it would be a step backwards

Originally Posted by TMC CL65

I don't see any mention of the turbo size/models...

Tom

Originally Posted by kip

Sorry didnt understand your question. Peak boost gives some indication in comparing the turbos PTTS 1.2bar? vs 1.5bar in M5.

The M5 has Garrett turbos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8n3w3tDfHU

The PTTS has a new interior for the old turbos I guess, titanium-aluminum turbine wheels:
The increased performance compared with the Panamera Turbo can be attributed to two main enhancements: Improved turbochargers with titanium-aluminium turbine wheels and modified engine control. The use of the innovative titanium-aluminium alloy reduces the weight of the turbine and compressor wheel. This results in a lower moment of inertia and thus in improved and more agile engine responsiveness.

Originally Posted by TMC CL65

You can't accurately infer the differences in turbo sizes based on boost #'s. There are so many variables that affect the boost numbers (i.e. intake/exhaust). I don't think you can look at the engine displacement and relative hp numbers. Because based on that logic the X5 M engine would have larger turbos compared to the M5...because the M5 has the same displacement...and only 5 hp more than the X5 M...but the M5 has a lot more boost....one would think that the turbos must be bigger in the X5 M.... which is supposedly the opposite case.

Tom

Originally Posted by TMC CL65

I don't see any mention of the turbo size/models...

Tom

Originally Posted by kip

Here is the PTTS turbo:
Mitsubishi TD04-18T-11 with titanium aluminum rotors

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ra-turbo-1.pdf

This is what the X6M has, and the M5 F10 should have the same Gerretts:

Turbochargers
Garrett/Honeywell MGT2260DL

http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/appl...nger_cars/bmw/

F10:
"The new S63Tü (technical update) maintains its Garrett-sourced twin-scroll turbochargers that reside in the valley of the V, but the heads that feed them now feature BMW’s Valvetronic variable-valve lift system."
http://www.roadandtrack.com/auto-new...-m5-technology
X6M20102 turbos (izq.)S635504.4/V8GMGT2260DL790484-0003X6M20102 turbos (izq.)S635504.4/V8GMGT2260DL790484-0003