Sport Auto - BMW M5 vs Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG PP vs Porsche Panamera Turbo S
#16
04-21-2012, 12:54 PM
For full details we need the full scan. Remember sport auto is a quality mag, runs are 4-run 2-way averages, I believe. Also the first time both cars had the same tires. So the Auto zeitung test is less valuable, I think.
What is also interesting is at higher speeds +200 the PTTS has a smaller drag coefficient 0,29 vs 0,33 which may also play a role, then again the M5 has better gearing for those speeds, if I remember correctly.
What is also interesting is at higher speeds +200 the PTTS has a smaller drag coefficient 0,29 vs 0,33 which may also play a role, then again the M5 has better gearing for those speeds, if I remember correctly.
I would guess the PSS tires are worth close to one second a lap around Hockenheim. Now that the Panamera has the same shoes as the M5, the difference in lap time is absolutely huge. I just wish they could have put those tires on the PGTS. Looks like I'll have to wear these Pirellis out as fast as possible...
#17
04-22-2012, 05:24 AM
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I believe the PTTS had N-rated Pilot Super Sports, which should be the absolute cream of the crop. Not sure if the M5 had the N-rated, but the difference is minimal I'm sure.
I would guess the PSS tires are worth close to one second a lap around Hockenheim. Now that the Panamera has the same shoes as the M5, the difference in lap time is absolutely huge. I just wish they could have put those tires on the PGTS. Looks like I'll have to wear these Pirellis out as fast as possible...
I would guess the PSS tires are worth close to one second a lap around Hockenheim. Now that the Panamera has the same shoes as the M5, the difference in lap time is absolutely huge. I just wish they could have put those tires on the PGTS. Looks like I'll have to wear these Pirellis out as fast as possible...
Unique to Porsche, the ‘N’ rating is given to tyres that have been approved by Porsche engineers in Weissach. Porsche Centres guarantee this standard by only fitting ‘N’ rated tyres to Porsche vehicles.
Advances in tyre technology mean that tyre wear or even mixing different brands, patterns or ‘N’ numbers, even if from the same manufacturer, could result in an increase in road noise and significant changes in shock absorption, steering and smooth handling. Your Porsche Centre stocks a wide range of ‘N’ rated tyres for all Porsche models to maintain your car’s performance.
#18
04-22-2012, 08:43 AM
If the M5 is coming from the factory with 620hp on the dyno, imagine what's going to happen once the tuners get a hold of it, 750hp is definitely in reach. rear wheel drive will always hinder the 0-60 times vs panamera but on the move it should do some damage!
#19
04-22-2012, 11:07 AM
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Rep Power: 76 The PTT/PTTS will be much faster modified are there is both engine and turbo pressure reserves left.
#20
04-22-2012, 11:30 AM
BMW's have always been "maxed out" from the factory, I can not agree more with Kip on this one.
#21
04-22-2012, 12:03 PM
This is where I think people get it totally wrong. The Panamera is a low pressure turbo with about 1.0 bar, max 1.2 bar of boost and a bigger 4.8 liter engine. The M5 allready has been tweeked heavily. Turbos are running high boost according to different sources 1.5-1,8 bar. And how much more power do you want to take out of the 4.4 liter engine? I think M5 tuners will be disappointed and they should actually tune the 550i, with the very same 4.4liter engine, modified to the M5.
The PTT/PTTS will be much faster modified are there is both engine and turbo pressure reserves left.
The PTT/PTTS will be much faster modified are there is both engine and turbo pressure reserves left.
You should know the 4.4L engine in the 550 is not at all the same as that of the M5..
Only thing they share in common is bank angle and cylinder spacing.
#22
04-22-2012, 10:17 PM
New M5 will take away sales from Panamera 6-cyl(loaded) and S. Turbo is a very expensive Panamera, esp when the base starts with the 6 cylinder.
And the M5 looks elegant and understated if some people prefer that.
The New M5 also comes pretty loaded with tech standard.
Either way, both are nice cars.
And the M5 looks elegant and understated if some people prefer that.
The New M5 also comes pretty loaded with tech standard.
Either way, both are nice cars.
#23
04-23-2012, 08:28 PM
M5 rating has got to be "value" based. Great bang for the buck, but the new one does nothing for me and I have daily driven an M5 since 1988. I think a number of us on this are jumping ship after many M's on this board and we are saying something with our wallet - we want a GTS or a TT or a TTS, we don't care about cost, we just like the Panamera better for a variety of reasons. Doesn't mean we don't like the M or respect what has been achieved and for the price they have done some serious magic!
These are all great cars, but I don't really care how a magazine rates them. I just get what I like and enjoy it. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading the different opinions, as I do.
Can't wait for my PTT to come in few weeks.
These are all great cars, but I don't really care how a magazine rates them. I just get what I like and enjoy it. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading the different opinions, as I do.
Can't wait for my PTT to come in few weeks.
#25
04-24-2012, 05:05 AM
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Rep Power: 76 So you are saying the S63B44Tü engine is not a TUNED version of the N63, but its a completely new engine??
There you would be wrong. Which, points to my original comment, why TUNE a TUNED engine with HIGHER turbo pressure?
Last edited by kip; 04-24-2012 at 05:23 AM.
#26
04-24-2012, 05:31 AM
I base my "logic" on the fact that there's not a $60k difference, in either performance or quality, between the P car and the M5
whereas the quality[sic] of the ctsv is, well, rubbish
whereas the quality[sic] of the ctsv is, well, rubbish
#27
04-24-2012, 06:35 AM
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90% of the E60 M5 gearboxes failed! I would be careful about going into the quality topic...
#29
04-24-2012, 08:45 AM
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/f10...ml#post2102224
Here is an excerpt from the thread showing the differences:
Many have speculated the M5 engine shares parts with the 550i engine
A quick scan through the latest parts update that added the F10 M5 at a local dealer has revealed the following
Shared parts:
Connecting Rods
Head gaskets
Oil fill cap
Parts NOT shared;
Engine case
Oil Pan
Pistons
Crankshaft + bearings
Oil Filter
Camshaft
Intake valves
Exhaust valves
Turbos
Charge Air Coolers
Oil pump
Waterpump
#30
04-24-2012, 09:30 AM
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 1,330
Rep Power: 76 As this is a Porsche board, you prove me wrong (I have no idea of the percentage (AND NEITHER HAVE YOU UNLESS YOU ARE IN THE BMW ORGANIZATION)), but it safe to say MANY MANY gearboxes failed:
The carbon brushes in the electronic motor fail. The pump fails. Internal pressure loss of the pump. This failure goes up to 1/23/06 production date.
There is a gear blocking problem all the way up to 09/08 production with SMGIII that will set all kinds of blocking faults and will not go into gear. The same symptom of a pump failure. But this is fixable with a software update.
There are even more problems on the earlier model years with complete failures listed.
