Hi fellow 6'ers. Haven't been aroudn the forum too long as a contributor, I have as a reader since September of 13. Just wanted to offer a few parting thoughts as I dumped my 2010 Panamera 4S yesterday. It's been replaced by a BMW 550i X-drive with m-sport and exec. I don't even need comparisons that they are not the same cars. They're not and the highlight of the BMW is the twin turbo 4.4 V8. Why did I finally check out of the Porsche?

I was the second owner on my 4S. Like Wassy, I have been fighting various suspension, crunchs, creaks, clunks, squeaks and other assorted noises. Today, here, I'm not going to name my dealer, nor my service advisor (who was a big reason for me leaving the brand). I am waiting for a meeting with the dealer GM and regional Porsche brand maagers and might share after my discussion with them.

My front end noises took three visits to the shop to get the service advisor to acknowledge the issue. Once he did hear it, three weeks to get parts and trial and error of bushings, end links and finally all four control arms. The vehicle was returned to me damaged (looks like they scraped all four wheels pulling into the lift area or putting on the alignment rack). I immediately complained, they had to have their "wheel" guy look at it.

Fast forward two weeks, drop the car off again for the wheel guy to look at, as well as have their shop invesitgate a new noise in the rear end, a tach needle that is erratic and engine pinging. Car goes in on Monday, with explicit instructions - I need it Friday AM for travel to a meeting. No call, no update, no nothing all week. Call the dealer Friday AM - the wheel guy looked at it, we haven't gotten to it yet. WTF? I tell them forget it, give me the car now.

Service advisor calls me back, says - well, we're going to look at your other concerns anyway. Fine. I go to pick the car up. Service advisor says - wheel guy says the damage on your wheels was there before and due to poor previous repair. I explain (again) that I have inspected the wheels thoroughly and that prior to LAST visit in the shop I spent a whole day deatiling the car top to bottom and KNOW the damage was not present before leaving the car with them (did I mention they drove the car 80 miles to diagnose issues). And that I have pictures to prove it. It was at this point the conversation went no where as he called me a liar and said it was already there AND that it did not happen in their control. At this point I said the magical wheel ding ferry must have floated out of the sky and did it and he gives me a "don't be smart with me..." really Mr. Service Advisor? THAT's how you want to talk to your customers?

Anyway, the erratic tach and noise in rear were both "normal" (tach set no codes, they could not duplicate noise). At one point previously my dealer told me to expect to replace control arms every 25-30k, nomal wear out item (keep in mind these are 1500 each). I'm not interested in a car that needs suspension rebuilt every 18 months to the tune of 6-8 grand.

My warranty was set to expire 09/2014 and all of this confirmed there was no way I was keeping the car one minute past the warranty date, so with a good presidents day sale and an even better deal on the 550, pulled the trigger. I'll miss the looks of the Panamera (especially the front) and it was a nice car to drive, but I won't miss the BS desribed above.

Sorry for the long post. Guess I'll be over on the BMW pages now - will stay in touch here too.

 

Sorry to hear about all your issues man. Enjoy that 550 though, nice ride.

Rippey

 

MackSea,

I'm sorry they were unable to make things right for you and your Panamera. I'm in the same boat as you know. I really have tried hard to work with PCNA at resolving my issues, either through some factory assistance towards a replacement vehicle or the willingness to fix what ails mine. Friday they told me they are not willing to participate in a replacement vehicle and they will only attempt to fix what they deem is wrong. They will not address the other issues. I have never experienced anything like this (except Maserati). For me, I'm not asking for the impossible and have been extremely fair and amicable in wanting to stay with a Panamera. At this point, for me, they've left me no choice but to continue with the Lemon Law process. I wholeheartedly attempted to avoid this with them. Both of my neighbors have Panameras and neither exhibit what my car does. Test driving two others at the dealer, one had the pdk downshift clunk but to a MUCH much lesser extent. Barely noticeable. No crunch over dips and no clunk from start. And definitely no wheezing from engine a second after starting from stop. And of course, no pinging. What amazes me is that the dealer offered a reasonable but not great trade In value. The trade is about the same as lemon law would award, so to me, this is a huge help to PCNA in resolving this easily since they wouldn't be in the hole on the trade at least. Or close enough. Once the car gets a buyback branding on title, it will cost them significantly more to get me out. I just don't get it. If I wanted a different brand, I'd trade it but I really just want a panamera that is consistent with the quality I've experienced in others. I was even willing to come up with some money to help the cause and still- shut down. Wow!

I'm also on the BMW boards. I've owned too many BMW's to discuss. LOL. I've had many many 5 series and they are awesome for what they are. The 550 is a beast. However, for me, the change from hydraulic steering to electric changed the entire car's feel and to me no longer felt like what made BMW BMW. Our x50i msport Lease expired in December and again, they did away with the heavy hydraulic steering and pushed me away for the time being. They are trying to capture a different market, the lexus type market, but at the expense of true loyalists (ask Dinan_GT) who appears to have just switched over. Welcome Dinan! You will enjoy the 5'er and the time in the shop (lol) but know that they will attempt to resolve your issues much more appropriately. Different kind of company I guess.

Don't be a stranger and let us know how your enjoying the BMW. Best of luck buddy.

 

A**holes like that do pop up from time to time and definitely deserve to be reported. Judging by how he treated you, he will have a history. You are doing his company a favor by reporting him. Your complaint will confirm what others have said about him.

 

daymmm that sux.

 

Sorry to hear that your whole ownership experience has been tarnished by a couple of unwilling *ssclowns, no other P dealership nearby?

 

Eh - it happens I guess with any car. There are other P dealers near by - but my closest was 2 miles from my home and the rest are on the other side of DC - so with traffic as much as 2 hours away. It just got to a point that instead of the car putting a smile on my face every time I turned the key, I was always waiting for the "next" thing to go wrong. And then in the back of my head I'm thinking, when warranty goes off in September this car is going to get VERY expensive to maintain (beyond consumables like tires, brakes and oil). Frankly as I think about it - the more these cars come onto the used car market (3 year leases), the more I think they may take a hit as people realize how "fragile" they are. For me - I need a daily driver that I can put 12-15k a year on and when my service guy told me to expect to do control arms every 25k - that was the breaking point (combined with the poor service and attitude).

Interestingly, the F&I guy at the BMW dealer used to work at my P car dealer. He asked why I was getting out of the car and when I told him in large part due to the service advisor - his words(unsolicited) yes, he's arrogant.

I'll take it all up with PCNA - and know that I'm still a huge fan of the cars. The Pan is by FAR a better looking car than the 550 and definitely sharper in driving experience, but so far I'm extremely happy with the 550.

 

Control arms every 25k? Does that sound reasonable to you? Almost sounds like a manufacturer defect if that's true. Why so fragile vs other cars? Kind if am scary proposition, especially as a daily driver. If we track it, then I can perhaps expect that parts will get worn and slammed much quicker.

I agree that's it's a beautiful car to look at. Enjoy the 5'er and those comfort seats.

 

I'm not sure about this bashing here.


My last PTT had 45k miles on it and never a day out of service except scheduled maintenance. As for cars out of warranty - any modern car is an albatross when the warranty expires - this goes all the way back to people totaling Buick Reatta's when the center nav/control screen failed due to costs.


My CL55 was the last car I purchased as it killed me when the warranty expired - I lease everything now and usually trade in early.


PCNA has been exceptional to me - from helping with substantial issues on my 4S to allowing me to purchase a 2014 PTT before the launch. I have no issues with PCNA but it does sound like a different dealer could be the solution for the OP.

 

MackSea, your situation seems very unfortunate, and clearly you've had enough go wrong, especially with the treatment at your dealer.
I know things were quite frustrating, but I hope you aren't completely turned off of the brand. Porsche vehicles are some of the best in the world. It is the treatment of the customers that can ruin that experience. Nothing is perfect every time. But the salesmen/service depts here are not built with German engineering. They are typical useless individuals who may have flunked out of previous occupations (I'm pretty biased against people who work at dealerships (except the techs themselves), unfortunately this negative bias has been consistently reinforced). I wish you would have seeked assistance from another dealership (I know how convenient it can be to have a service dept a couple miles away - ownership can be extremely easy).

The 550 is a really cool car. I just drove one last week (X-drive) in Indianapolis (in that snow). Performed flawlessly.

 

Definitely not bashing the car - in some ways I do think its better than the 550 I replaced it with (looks, interior, room, raw peformance). Am I bashing my dealer and my service advisor specifically. Absolutely. PCNA has worked with me, including a voucher to cover my paymetn on my last 21 day service visit. I'm still planning to talk with PCNA and the dealer GM to let them know what happened and why I left as a customer (for now at least) in hopes they can improve their processes/personnel. After my last visit where no trouble was found, I just saw a repeat of previous visits - we can't hear the noise, therefore there is none, plus I have the issue of damage done to the vehicle while in their posession which they flat out denied (I have photographic proof). Another dealer probably could have made it right, but seeing the history of the 2010 4S in particular (seems like we don't see much on the later models) I just ran out of patience to continue to sort this car out with only 7 months left on warranty.

 

Wow, I just did the opposite transition from the new F10 550M Sport to my new Panamera. I absolutely loved my F10 till I hit 40k on it and the computer started to read faults in the transmission. It kept saying "Transmission Failure" and put me into limp mode a couple times. The real culprit was the fuel pump or so they said.... I probably got that code another 4more times in 3 months and felt that BMWNA couldn't resolve the issue so I unloaded the car. Looks like my problem is a pretty common issue and other F10 owners are going through the same thing... Hopefully you will have better luck then I did with it.

 

Lovely.

I was chatting with my car buddy up near Philly over the weekend and he also mentioned the BMW turbos are a weak point on the car and apparently have the wastegate integrated which makes them very expensive to replace and I guess it is common knowledge they are a throw away part after 100k miles. I'm only planning on keeping the 550 thru the end of warranty and then maybe I'll try coming back to a P car.

 

And BTW - best of luck with your Pan - I'm guessing 4 years into the run on this model they've sorted out the problems that were present on the early cars.

 

MarkSea, can't you go to a different service advisor from the same dealership?