Dear Porsche friends,

As a newby and long time Porsche enthousiast, I am reaching out to this community to hopefully find out if there is any knowledge and possible solutions to an annoying PDK issue I have. I live in Switzerland and after 5 x 911 since 1991, I am now on my first 2009 Panamera 4S. I absolutly love this car, which is a great touring machine for taking passengers and copious amounts of luggage on long trips.

But the pleasure is slightly diminished by an ongoing PDK gremlin, which has been going on for quite some time, as per the description below, which I found on another forum from a poster who appears to be experiencing the same problem:

“Situation: cruising along 2250 rpm in 7th on the motorway and every two or three seconds there is a momentary increase in revs, say to 2450 then back onto 2250, both audible and seen on rev counter. No change in the drive itself. If conditions are right, it is possible to hear an audible scraping sound when this happens. It seems that the clutch is momentarily slipping. It does the same in 5th gear.“

Unfortunately the poster did not get any solutions suggested. I also trawled the internet to find similar postings and did find a few, but none led to any results with regards to the underlying problem.

In my case, the issue started at around 70K kms on the counter and when I took it to Porsche, they had no idea what it was, but suggested a PDK replacement for 15K Swiss Francs at my cost. Talking to a German PDK specialist, they said they could not help beyond replacing the PDK at 10K euro. Not a good prospect for an immaculate car that is being driven carefully.

Since there were no error messages at all, I decided to keep going and now am at 110K kms on the counter, with the same issue still present, albeit a bit more pronounced. But still no error messages….so I may decide to keep going until the PDK decides to pack up. For the record, I have had oil changes and PDK resets done with no change to the issue.

The car is perfectly driveable and beyond the annoyance of the blipping, drives like a dream. So I understand that in the end I may have to change the PDK, but would still like to know if anyone in the community has had similar issues and knows about the underlying cause. It is sad that such a great technology has these gremlins pop up with no solution beyond replacing a whole set of clutch & gears when the issue is most likely caused by a faulty relay or setting.

Thank you for any suggestions and best regards from Geneva,
Hans

 

It is likely that this is not a problem with the clutch discs, but rather with the management of one or more solenoids.
I know that this part can be replaced with a ticket of around 4000 euros.

 

Thank you Turbovolt, I will look into this.

 

try pdk clutch relearn first . Either with piwis or there is a procedure you can do yoursel

 

Hans accurately and precisely explains the same issues I’m having with my 2012 Panamera 4. I love the car and am totally complacent but this problem that is so accurately described plaques me. I made a 500 mile round trip to a dealer to be simply told that the 5th and 7th gear clutches are worn and will fail. They advised to dispose of the car or face the consequences. My car has 138,000 well taken care of miles. I am the 2nd owner. They informed
me of the costs of a replacement transmission and also told my that buying used units is often not successful and wished me a good day. I proceeded on my 250 mile journey back home simply downshifting or upshifting when the issue occurs. Sometimes I drive it in manual mode not spending much time in 5th and downshifting when 7th makes the so well described noise. I describe my noise as a “whooshing”. I was hesitant and sad at the prospects of eliminating the car from my life and then after reading the post from Hans I was refreshed with the idea that well I will just drive it and deal around the problem. The solenoid idea has merit but I fear I’d just dump another $5,000 US with no solutions. I often wonder about the adaption procedure but the dealer warned against it and simply said they didn’t preform it except in the case of fluid change. I did have a non dealer foreign car mechanic do the procedure but it didn’t seem to help. His judgement was that the 5th and 7th gear clutches were wore. Tje 3 minutes off, 3 min on with procedure does at times help! I think anyway… haha

im wondering are you still driving your car in spite of the problem Hans? If so I’d love to hear back.

thanks to all who offer assistance

 

Hi Adaptable, thank you for sharing your experiences and sorry to hear you have a similar problem.

I am still driving the car and the issue has not been resolved, since I am still not really sure about what causes it and I am reluctant to spend 6K Eur to find out. I am now at 124K kms, so have been driving with the problem for about 60K kms. As said in my initial post, it has gotten a bit more pronounced, but driving is not a problem. And as you also say, when it is a problem, like when going up a mountain pass, I go manual and try to stay in 2-4-6, which all work fine.

I am not a car technician, but frankly, I do not think a worn clutch is the problem. But yes, the problem could over time cause a worn clutch, but the clutch in my view is not the initial primary cause. A worn clutch would not only slip between 1800-2250 revs and would slip more if revs are increased. In fact, the opposite happens. Once you are above 2300 revs, no more shuddering or blipping. The problem here is that at normal autobahn speeds of 120 km/h, the car drives in 7th gear at around 1900 revs, which is exactly when the slipping/blipping happens. In Germany, at speeds of 180+, there is no problem whatsoever.

So my current plan is to keep driving the car as is and perhaps in the future, when it gets really bad, have a specialist do a revision of the PDK. Not cheap, but the car is such a good drive that I would be happy to keep it for at least another 100K kms. Trading in or up is of course an option, but the cost/depreciation would be much higher than the 5-6K Eur for a revised PDK. My understanding is that that includes good solenoids as well as new clutch plates.

 

Have you fault code ? When there is this problem on the speed 1-3-5-7 it's a problem of sensor in the gearbox necessary to change.
You can make gearbox refilling with this oil "total dct mv", it's better for the clutch

 

No, no fault codes in the past, nor at the moment.

 

Thank you for your reply. I have no fault codes either. It’s strange the the RPM range of mine behaves exactly the same. We don’t have these speed limits on the US but I’ve been know to break them a time or two and like wise I agree once you get above those rpm’s the problem goes away. It is such a frustration. With all respect to the service techs and dealers I’m not sure they really want to deal with older Porsche automobiles hoping to upgrade their clients. However Real service would be the way to create a passionate following . A question for you is, have you noticed any differences after you have done a transmission fluid change?

Perhaps those of us on this forum may bring about a recall for a problem which obviously plagues all of these otherwise fine cars.


Have you had an adaptation done? My dealer refused to do it on my car saying it wasn’t something they do except after a modification. I suppose you’ve done the 3 minutes with PCM and AC off followed by 3 on etc?


Best regards

Mark

 

Hi Mark, I have had both a reset done and a fluid change and it made no difference. As Marc13190 also wrote, I think it is an electronic problem that cannot be fixed with a reset. The issue with our older cars is that they are long out of warranty, so for these type of potentially expensive repairs you have to find an independent specialist to do the work.

 

I've change my PDK fluid and i've no change.
When you change only oil it's not necessary make calibration.
You can make this :

Conditions/procedure for engine torque loss adaptation:

Engine temperature is at least 176° F. (80° C.) (read out the temperature from the PDK
control unit by selecting “Actual values/Input signals” > “CAN input signals - Engine
temperature”).
All loads switched off.
PDK selector lever in position P.
Allow engine to run at idle speed for 3 minutes with air conditioning switched off.
Then allow engine to run at idle speed for 3 minutes with air conditioning switched on.
Switch off ignition and wait 15 seconds (adaptation values are stored)

 

Very Good Morning to you. I am very relieved to have found this thread and to have fellow drivers who are experiencing the very same issue.
I have been test driving a Panamera 4 2011 yesterday with a finding that sounds exactly like yours. A little background, this was a unit that was owned by an individual person who had the same issue and decided to return the car to the dealer he got it from. The car was then taken to a Porsche specialty dealership by the dealer and the specialty workshop replaced the entire PDK transmission with one from another car but the problem persists and the dealers believed that the transmission they replaced was from a (bad) unit. So in short, the car is on sale at a cheap price!

I test drove the car yesterday and it has the same issue I am reading from your post Hans that you have which is a slippage on the 7th gear and mildly maybe also on the 5th. The 7th gear is most prominent where in at speeds of 95-110km/hr the rpm jumps back and forth, a very little bit.

Now this dealer wants to sell this Porsche saying that this transmission should be changed and it is at an approachable price, personally after driving the car yesterday, I am perfectly fine to drive it with this issue of minor RPM's jumping back and forth on the highway only. I would like to know if the car is good to drive for another 50,000-60,000 kms and if it would stay with me for a year since that is only as along as I need the car.


The car is now at 1,90,000kms, 2011 make. I have two questions and request if you can please tell me:

• What is your present situation, have you been able to diagnose the exact issue and if yes, what was it / cost to repair???
• Secondly, iff the problem is still there, how many km's are you now at and how long has it been that the car is still okay with having this issue.

What I want to get is mainly how risky is this a buy for me, car is going cheap and I need it for a year, max a year and a half and I will be clocking 25,000kms tops! Would the car still run or is it likely to just collapse while I am owning it !

I have to make a decision to buy this car today! Any help from you guys is much appreciated

Thank you,
Sam Simon

 

Dear Sam,

I cannot advise you on the purchase decision, but can only report my personal experience. In my case, the blipping clutch issue started around 60K kms and continued until 120 kms, when I sold the car. It never became a serious problem from a driving pov, just an annoyance, especially when driving in the mountains. So in the end I decided to trade the Panamera for a Taycan.
The Panamera is a great car to drive, but if you buy one with the blipping issue, you have to assume that at some point the PDK will have to be replaced.

 

The car still has the same issues but I’ve noticed it less in colder weather which makes little since considering that the engine comes up to operational temps. A friend of mine who has much knowledge of cars and fluid dynamics called the problem a “ stutter” he believes it could be a solenoid or what he describes a fluid failing to shunt to the fluid accumulator. As he describes it the way the clutches are designed is for one pack of clutches needs to be questioned for an upshoft or downshift. He says fluid is shunted into an accumulator to accomplish this task. He said if the seals were bad or a solenoid valve failed properly the noise we all here would result as the new clutch pack packed the proper hydraulic pressure to seat properly. It’s a theory anyway. I’ve driven the car probably another 20,000 miles since my last posting. It’s a very nice car, mine has been well cared for and does everything I ask. One think I would recommend is that a high milage car should not have a fluid change. Mine was wonderful until I did the recommended fluid change. I also had a bmw mechanic who told me if the car has over 100,000 miles to leave the fluid alone. They are after all similar ZF transmissions. I will run mine until I have to tow to scrap or I trade on something else. I live in a small town where there these cars are rare. I get a lot of compliments about it. I keep it clean and in an otherwise good state of repair. I tried to explain all these concerns to the Porsche dealer and told him of the concern of others but it fell on deaf ears, they simply don’t want to deal with them.

 

I have a 2013 Panamera (3.6L) and I am experiencing exactly the same symptoms you mentioned. After taking it to change the oil of the PDK gearbox, I have the same problems in the 5th and 7th gears.

I am a bit puzzled and don’t know what could be wrong. I am not sure whether to complain to the place where I had the PDK gearbox oil changed or to take it to another workshop to have the PDK gearbox checked directly.

How did you solve your problem? Is there a solution? Is it worth it considering that PDK gearbox repairs are very expensive?

Thank you, I really appreciate yours comments/suggestions...