Anyone on Twin plate clutch for ASM V8 Vantage S?
#1
10-14-2023, 08:56 PM
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Singapore
Age: 37
Posts: 7
Rep Power: 0 
Anyone on Twin plate clutch for ASM V8 Vantage S?
Dear Fellow 6SpeedOnline Members
Hello everyone from all the way in Sunny Singapore!! I'm the owner of a MY2015 ASM V8 Vantage S have had it for a good 6 and half years now and had never regretted owning it.
Recently I have been experiencing some clutch slip and suspect that the clutch is at the end of its life and have more or less decided to have a look at Velocity AP's twin plate clutch for my car. This forum has been extremely helpful for me in making that decision based on the reviews that I have been seeing, however I do have some questions regarding the clutch.
I do apologize for raising such an old topic again considering that everyone has more or less agreed it's a great kit, but most of the reviews seem to have come from manual owners or at the most 4.3L ASM owners. There wasn't much information on them for 4.7L Vantage S ASM II, so hence my hesitation and doubts. So I'm trying to find any ASM V8 Vantage S owners (2014+) who may have had this kit installed who can help?
Firstly, VAP mentioned on it's product page that machining of the torque tube is required for 2014+. I came across some videos online where it seems some owners managed to do the kit installation themselves and am wondering if they did so how did they machine on the torque tube? Was it alot of work?
Secondly, there's a lot of chatter about having to use the AMDS to reset the transmission parameters, some have mentioned it's not required, some say it's necessary. However, like i said most of the videos/posts/reviews I have come across are for 4.3L or at most a 4.7L manual. The most I came across was a video saying that for Vantage S models it's not even required to do the reset as the later models algorithms are slightly more advanced and can easily adapt to the new flywheel and clutch. So it's rather confusing as to which advice to follow?
Once again I do apologize for bringing up an old topic, however in Singapore other than the dealer there aren't many reputable workshops/garages that know how to handle Aston Martins. I will be working closely with my regular mechanics on this project as I trust them to do a good job on all my cars. They have worked on my AM as well but nothing as big as this, (Gruppe M carbon air intake, Fabspeed X pipe, TWS Magnesium forged wheels) so any extra information we can get is going to be super helpful!!
Many thanks to all!!
Best Regards
Bernie
Hello everyone from all the way in Sunny Singapore!! I'm the owner of a MY2015 ASM V8 Vantage S have had it for a good 6 and half years now and had never regretted owning it.
Recently I have been experiencing some clutch slip and suspect that the clutch is at the end of its life and have more or less decided to have a look at Velocity AP's twin plate clutch for my car. This forum has been extremely helpful for me in making that decision based on the reviews that I have been seeing, however I do have some questions regarding the clutch.
I do apologize for raising such an old topic again considering that everyone has more or less agreed it's a great kit, but most of the reviews seem to have come from manual owners or at the most 4.3L ASM owners. There wasn't much information on them for 4.7L Vantage S ASM II, so hence my hesitation and doubts. So I'm trying to find any ASM V8 Vantage S owners (2014+) who may have had this kit installed who can help?
Firstly, VAP mentioned on it's product page that machining of the torque tube is required for 2014+. I came across some videos online where it seems some owners managed to do the kit installation themselves and am wondering if they did so how did they machine on the torque tube? Was it alot of work?
Secondly, there's a lot of chatter about having to use the AMDS to reset the transmission parameters, some have mentioned it's not required, some say it's necessary. However, like i said most of the videos/posts/reviews I have come across are for 4.3L or at most a 4.7L manual. The most I came across was a video saying that for Vantage S models it's not even required to do the reset as the later models algorithms are slightly more advanced and can easily adapt to the new flywheel and clutch. So it's rather confusing as to which advice to follow?
Once again I do apologize for bringing up an old topic, however in Singapore other than the dealer there aren't many reputable workshops/garages that know how to handle Aston Martins. I will be working closely with my regular mechanics on this project as I trust them to do a good job on all my cars. They have worked on my AM as well but nothing as big as this, (Gruppe M carbon air intake, Fabspeed X pipe, TWS Magnesium forged wheels) so any extra information we can get is going to be super helpful!!
Many thanks to all!!
Best Regards
Bernie
#2
10-15-2023, 10:20 AM
I AN answer you might consider but it may not be THE answer you need. In thenUSA there is a place named Kentucky Clutch. They say they can rebuild and replace the friction material on any clutch. I know you send them the entire old clutch and flywheel. The turn around time is maybe a week or so. They then rebuild it and return it to you for about 1/3 the cost. The friction material is upgraded to Kevlar (I believe) and rebuild the cover plate so it should last a very long time.
Just a thought. I would call them and see what they say. They seem to be nice people on the phone. You may want to u
let the group here know how things worked out if you go that route.
Just a thought. I would call them and see what they say. They seem to be nice people on the phone. You may want to u
let the group here know how things worked out if you go that route.
#3
10-15-2023, 03:58 PM
I had a V8V SSii 2015 converted to the velocity AP twin plate clutch. I have been very happy with it.
Step 1. Give Chris at Velocity AP a call to talk things over. If there is not a VelocityAP installer/ dealer in the country things will be a little more complex.
Machining the torque tube is required. Not a difficult job but you will need the drawing from VelocityAP to give to a competent machine shop.
The bigger issue is that whomever does the install will need the full Aston Martin factory software. There is no alternative to this. If I understand correctly, it is required twice. Firstly to reset the clutch learn and tune the shifts, secondly to trigger the relearn of the flywheel misfire procedure.
Removing large amounts of the underside of the car is required to access everything. This is a long and fiddly job as I understand the first time you try it, even for a skilled professional. Like all things, shops that have done half a dozen of these clutch replacements can do it in half the time.
In summary, the twin plate clutch is much better. You will need to find a shop to get the factory clutch replaced. Unless I am much mistaken, even that will require the factory software to reset the clutch learn. You might as well spend the extra now to getter a better clutch and a cheaper replacement clutch if it ever wears out again.
Philip
Step 1. Give Chris at Velocity AP a call to talk things over. If there is not a VelocityAP installer/ dealer in the country things will be a little more complex.
Machining the torque tube is required. Not a difficult job but you will need the drawing from VelocityAP to give to a competent machine shop.
The bigger issue is that whomever does the install will need the full Aston Martin factory software. There is no alternative to this. If I understand correctly, it is required twice. Firstly to reset the clutch learn and tune the shifts, secondly to trigger the relearn of the flywheel misfire procedure.
Removing large amounts of the underside of the car is required to access everything. This is a long and fiddly job as I understand the first time you try it, even for a skilled professional. Like all things, shops that have done half a dozen of these clutch replacements can do it in half the time.
In summary, the twin plate clutch is much better. You will need to find a shop to get the factory clutch replaced. Unless I am much mistaken, even that will require the factory software to reset the clutch learn. You might as well spend the extra now to getter a better clutch and a cheaper replacement clutch if it ever wears out again.
Philip
#4
10-15-2023, 04:07 PM
One other thing.
I forgot about upgrading the SportShift II hydraulic hoses to the VelocityAP silicone ones. Not cheap but the old factory hoses have been known to fail and leave you stranded since the car will not go into gear.
Philip
I forgot about upgrading the SportShift II hydraulic hoses to the VelocityAP silicone ones. Not cheap but the old factory hoses have been known to fail and leave you stranded since the car will not go into gear.
Philip
#5
10-15-2023, 04:37 PM
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Singapore
Age: 37
Posts: 7
Rep Power: 0
Thank you for taking the time to answer!
I’ll take whatever suggestions I can get!
this sounds like a really good alternative. However as I’m in Singapore it would be good if they sold an entire kit though.
shall drop them an email to see if that’s doable.
I’ll take whatever suggestions I can get!
this sounds like a really good alternative. However as I’m in Singapore it would be good if they sold an entire kit though.
shall drop them an email to see if that’s doable.
I AN answer you might consider but it may not be THE answer you need. In thenUSA there is a place named Kentucky Clutch. They say they can rebuild and replace the friction material on any clutch. I know you send them the entire old clutch and flywheel. The turn around time is maybe a week or so. They then rebuild it and return it to you for about 1/3 the cost. The friction material is upgraded to Kevlar (I believe) and rebuild the cover plate so it should last a very long time.
Just a thought. I would call them and see what they say. They seem to be nice people on the phone. You may want to u
let the group here know how things worked out if you go that route.
Just a thought. I would call them and see what they say. They seem to be nice people on the phone. You may want to u
let the group here know how things worked out if you go that route.
#6
10-15-2023, 05:00 PM
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Singapore
Age: 37
Posts: 7
Rep Power: 0
Thank you Phillip!
That answered a lot of my questions!!
Will definitely be sending Chris an email on this soon to work things out. Don’t think there’s a dealer for VAP in Singapore, but I have faith in my regular shop. We have been researching this together and they are confident on most parts of the job.
we had 2 main concerns which you have answered greatly for us!
We were wondering what part of the torque tube had to be machined and to what extent. It’s great to know that we can get the drawings from VAP on this rather than having to work it out on the fly.
Fortunately, they do have access to AMDS, but will get them to double check with VAP the full procedure on the reset.
If that proves difficult I would just have the car brought back to the AM dealer to do the software bit.
also thank you for the heads up for the hoses!! I’m not that surprised to hear about this as I had mine replaced at around the2nd year I had the car! Thankfully, car was still under warranty so dealer replaced it for me for free! Just saw the price of the silicone hoses you suggested. It’s actually quite affordable as the dealer would have charged about 1000USD for the stock replacement.
FYI the dealer in Singapore, due to various tax reasons, charges really high for some of the repair work. A stock clutch replacement at the dealer is about 10,000USD. When I did the maths, I worked out that I could squeeze in the headers and still have quite some change left over hence the decision to stay away from factory parts 😅
once again! Thank you for taking the time to give me such a detailed answer to my question!! It’s greatly appreciated!! If you’re ever in Singapore let’s link up for a meal!!
best regards
bernie
That answered a lot of my questions!!
Will definitely be sending Chris an email on this soon to work things out. Don’t think there’s a dealer for VAP in Singapore, but I have faith in my regular shop. We have been researching this together and they are confident on most parts of the job.
we had 2 main concerns which you have answered greatly for us!
We were wondering what part of the torque tube had to be machined and to what extent. It’s great to know that we can get the drawings from VAP on this rather than having to work it out on the fly.
Fortunately, they do have access to AMDS, but will get them to double check with VAP the full procedure on the reset.
If that proves difficult I would just have the car brought back to the AM dealer to do the software bit.
also thank you for the heads up for the hoses!! I’m not that surprised to hear about this as I had mine replaced at around the2nd year I had the car! Thankfully, car was still under warranty so dealer replaced it for me for free! Just saw the price of the silicone hoses you suggested. It’s actually quite affordable as the dealer would have charged about 1000USD for the stock replacement.
FYI the dealer in Singapore, due to various tax reasons, charges really high for some of the repair work. A stock clutch replacement at the dealer is about 10,000USD. When I did the maths, I worked out that I could squeeze in the headers and still have quite some change left over hence the decision to stay away from factory parts 😅
once again! Thank you for taking the time to give me such a detailed answer to my question!! It’s greatly appreciated!! If you’re ever in Singapore let’s link up for a meal!!
best regards
bernie
I had a V8V SSii 2015 converted to the velocity AP twin plate clutch. I have been very happy with it.
Step 1. Give Chris at Velocity AP a call to talk things over. If there is not a VelocityAP installer/ dealer in the country things will be a little more complex.
Machining the torque tube is required. Not a difficult job but you will need the drawing from VelocityAP to give to a competent machine shop.
The bigger issue is that whomever does the install will need the full Aston Martin factory software. There is no alternative to this. If I understand correctly, it is required twice. Firstly to reset the clutch learn and tune the shifts, secondly to trigger the relearn of the flywheel misfire procedure.
Removing large amounts of the underside of the car is required to access everything. This is a long and fiddly job as I understand the first time you try it, even for a skilled professional. Like all things, shops that have done half a dozen of these clutch replacements can do it in half the time.
In summary, the twin plate clutch is much better. You will need to find a shop to get the factory clutch replaced. Unless I am much mistaken, even that will require the factory software to reset the clutch learn. You might as well spend the extra now to getter a better clutch and a cheaper replacement clutch if it ever wears out again.
Philip
Step 1. Give Chris at Velocity AP a call to talk things over. If there is not a VelocityAP installer/ dealer in the country things will be a little more complex.
Machining the torque tube is required. Not a difficult job but you will need the drawing from VelocityAP to give to a competent machine shop.
The bigger issue is that whomever does the install will need the full Aston Martin factory software. There is no alternative to this. If I understand correctly, it is required twice. Firstly to reset the clutch learn and tune the shifts, secondly to trigger the relearn of the flywheel misfire procedure.
Removing large amounts of the underside of the car is required to access everything. This is a long and fiddly job as I understand the first time you try it, even for a skilled professional. Like all things, shops that have done half a dozen of these clutch replacements can do it in half the time.
In summary, the twin plate clutch is much better. You will need to find a shop to get the factory clutch replaced. Unless I am much mistaken, even that will require the factory software to reset the clutch learn. You might as well spend the extra now to getter a better clutch and a cheaper replacement clutch if it ever wears out again.
Philip
#7
10-15-2023, 11:12 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: NE WA state
Age: 71
Posts: 55
Rep Power: 4
While searching for a car to buy (we wound up with a 2012 S a couple of weeks ago), I exchanged a series of emails with Velocity AP. I mentioned it is my intent to do the dual plate install myself when/if we need a clutch. The car is at 27,000 miles, and the clutch read says about 45% left IF wear is linear. I've been told it is not, so we will be watching this closely via the Foxwell 710 code reader I purchased. I had also been told that a buyer should assume the clutch is just about used up at 25,000 miles, and that doesn't seem to be the case on the car we bought. I'm wondering if SS2 is a little easier on the clutch disk.
The Foxwell is capable of clearing some of the info the control modules learn, and I have used it to initiate the SS2 gearbox self-configuration (for lack of the proper name). V AP says clearing the misfire codes is quite important after installing their kit, and that requires AMDS. I asked if driving the car very sedately up to them (195 miles) after changing the clutch and doing what can be done with the Foxwell would be okay. They felt it would be an acceptable risk.
Would you care to share how many miles this clutch has lasted? I know clutch life has many variables, but it would still be interesting to know what other S owners are seeing. All of the Aston Martin build sheets for SS2 cars have an entry about 8080S clutch friction material. Other V8Vs don't have that entry, so I'm wondering if AM thought the LUK 8080S material would improve clutch life, and if that has indeed been the case. Would also be nice to know what your clutch data is, now that you are getting some slippage. From what I've gathered, new clutches are 1900-ish and worn-out ones are 1300-ish. Mine is just below 1600.
The Foxwell is capable of clearing some of the info the control modules learn, and I have used it to initiate the SS2 gearbox self-configuration (for lack of the proper name). V AP says clearing the misfire codes is quite important after installing their kit, and that requires AMDS. I asked if driving the car very sedately up to them (195 miles) after changing the clutch and doing what can be done with the Foxwell would be okay. They felt it would be an acceptable risk.
Would you care to share how many miles this clutch has lasted? I know clutch life has many variables, but it would still be interesting to know what other S owners are seeing. All of the Aston Martin build sheets for SS2 cars have an entry about 8080S clutch friction material. Other V8Vs don't have that entry, so I'm wondering if AM thought the LUK 8080S material would improve clutch life, and if that has indeed been the case. Would also be nice to know what your clutch data is, now that you are getting some slippage. From what I've gathered, new clutches are 1900-ish and worn-out ones are 1300-ish. Mine is just below 1600.
Last edited by mbrandt1402; 10-16-2023 at 01:00 AM.
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#8
10-16-2023, 03:45 AM
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Singapore
Age: 37
Posts: 7
Rep Power: 0 While searching for a car to buy (we wound up with a 2012 S a couple of weeks ago), I exchanged a series of emails with Velocity AP. I mentioned it is my intent to do the dual plate install myself when/if we need a clutch. The car is at 27,000 miles, and the clutch read says about 45% left IF wear is linear. I've been told it is not, so we will be watching this closely via the Foxwell 710 code reader I purchased. I had also been told that a buyer should assume the clutch is just about used up at 25,000 miles, and that doesn't seem to be the case on the car we bought. I'm wondering if SS2 is a little easier on the clutch disk.
The Foxwell is capable of clearing some of the info the control modules learn, and I have used it to initiate the SS2 gearbox self-configuration (for lack of the proper name). V AP says clearing the misfire codes is quite important after installing their kit, and that requires AMDS. I asked if driving the car very sedately up to them (195 miles) after changing the clutch and doing what can be done with the Foxwell would be okay. They felt it would be an acceptable risk.
Would you care to share how many miles this clutch has lasted? I know clutch life has many variables, but it would still be interesting to know what other S owners are seeing. All of the Aston Martin build sheets for SS2 cars have an entry about 8080S clutch friction material. Other V8Vs don't have that entry, so I'm wondering if AM thought the LUK 8080S material would improve clutch life, and if that has indeed been the case. Would also be nice to know what your clutch data is, now that you are getting some slippage. From what I've gathered, new clutches are 1900-ish and worn-out ones are 1300-ish. Mine is just below 1600.
The Foxwell is capable of clearing some of the info the control modules learn, and I have used it to initiate the SS2 gearbox self-configuration (for lack of the proper name). V AP says clearing the misfire codes is quite important after installing their kit, and that requires AMDS. I asked if driving the car very sedately up to them (195 miles) after changing the clutch and doing what can be done with the Foxwell would be okay. They felt it would be an acceptable risk.
Would you care to share how many miles this clutch has lasted? I know clutch life has many variables, but it would still be interesting to know what other S owners are seeing. All of the Aston Martin build sheets for SS2 cars have an entry about 8080S clutch friction material. Other V8Vs don't have that entry, so I'm wondering if AM thought the LUK 8080S material would improve clutch life, and if that has indeed been the case. Would also be nice to know what your clutch data is, now that you are getting some slippage. From what I've gathered, new clutches are 1900-ish and worn-out ones are 1300-ish. Mine is just below 1600.
However other than that not too many issues.
#10
10-16-2023, 03:28 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: NE WA state
Age: 71
Posts: 55
Rep Power: 4
This is based on values I've seen on 3 or 4 forums/groups: A new clutch reads approximate 1900, and a worn out clutch reads approximate 1300, so a clutch disk has about 600 units of life when new. So (+Clutch reading -1300) / 600 = approximate percentage of clutch life left
Example: Clutch reading of 1400, less 1300 = 100 clutch units left. Divide 100 by 600 (full clutch life) = 16.7% remaining clutch life.
If you have done multiple readings and noted the odo at each reading, you can make a semi-educated guess as to when your clutch might fail, assuming driving conditions/clutch wear don't change.
As to why the math isn't dead reliable even if the type of driving never changes, there is leverage in the clutch cover/pressure plate that changes as the disk wears down. I'm too old to devote any remaining brain cells to figuring out if the first 100 units represent less or more clutch wear than the last 100, but I'm confident that it does change, and that an engineer could model it... and there would be a slightly different curve for every brand of clutch cover/pressure plate.
A couple of Aston dealers have told me you can't rely on the math. That could either be a CYA, or the last units represent less clutch life than the early ones do, so an owner looks at the math and thinks they have 16% left, but it is closer to 10%. If it was the other way around, I would expect them to say the math is a good guideline, comfortable in the knowledge that the final units last longer than the early ones.
Example: Clutch reading of 1400, less 1300 = 100 clutch units left. Divide 100 by 600 (full clutch life) = 16.7% remaining clutch life.
If you have done multiple readings and noted the odo at each reading, you can make a semi-educated guess as to when your clutch might fail, assuming driving conditions/clutch wear don't change.
As to why the math isn't dead reliable even if the type of driving never changes, there is leverage in the clutch cover/pressure plate that changes as the disk wears down. I'm too old to devote any remaining brain cells to figuring out if the first 100 units represent less or more clutch wear than the last 100, but I'm confident that it does change, and that an engineer could model it... and there would be a slightly different curve for every brand of clutch cover/pressure plate.
A couple of Aston dealers have told me you can't rely on the math. That could either be a CYA, or the last units represent less clutch life than the early ones do, so an owner looks at the math and thinks they have 16% left, but it is closer to 10%. If it was the other way around, I would expect them to say the math is a good guideline, comfortable in the knowledge that the final units last longer than the early ones.
#11
07-05-2024, 11:55 PM
Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Singapore
Age: 37
Posts: 7
Rep Power: 0
Hi all,
I have been writing to VAP recently regarding their twin plate clutch kit and they have told me that they are coming out with a new kit for ASM II since October 2023. However, everytime I have tried to contact them on this, they say that they are still doing testing and getting wear rates for the kit.
I'm just wondering if anyone here is in close contact with them and are in the know about this new clutch kit?
Clutch is about to go and am getting a little anxious about this.
Thank you!
I have been writing to VAP recently regarding their twin plate clutch kit and they have told me that they are coming out with a new kit for ASM II since October 2023. However, everytime I have tried to contact them on this, they say that they are still doing testing and getting wear rates for the kit.
I'm just wondering if anyone here is in close contact with them and are in the know about this new clutch kit?
Clutch is about to go and am getting a little anxious about this.
Thank you!
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