Tuning/Modifications

Who knows Carbon Fiber?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rate Thread
 
  #1  
Old 05-07-2010 | 06:25 PM
pnwpirelli's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 24
From: Washington State
Rep Power: 0
pnwpirelli is infamous around these parts
Who knows Carbon Fiber?

Need feedback/help/advice: I had some Carbon Fiber pieces come in slightly bent. Is there a way to straighten them w/out breaking or cracking the parts? This is my 1st experience w/ Carbon Fiber so I have no idea. Thanks.
 
  #2  
Old 05-10-2010 | 07:22 AM
logic factory's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
From: connecicut
Rep Power: 0
logic factory is infamous around these parts
this worked for me but your results will likely vary because of the various chemical compositions of expoies often used to impregnate the cf. i had a similar issue and resolved it by using a heat gun over the affected area. i then with everything very warm worked the problem area. this did not work perfectly but was a great improvement.
depending upon how much the piece needs to be worked the reality of fixing the piece becomes increasingly more difficult. the cf fabric becomes essentially locked into place after the epoxy has set up and changing the form much becomes next to impossible from my experience. please look into other solutions as im very green on this subject and would hate to steer you one way or the other.
to possible help others offer a realistic answer could you provide some images of the piece and specifically the area youd like to manipulate.
 
  #3  
Old 05-10-2010 | 09:20 AM
Tom@Champion's Avatar
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,321
From: Pompano Beach, FL
Rep Power: 0
Tom@Champion Is a GOD !Tom@Champion Is a GOD !Tom@Champion Is a GOD !Tom@Champion Is a GOD !Tom@Champion Is a GOD !Tom@Champion Is a GOD !Tom@Champion Is a GOD !Tom@Champion Is a GOD !Tom@Champion Is a GOD !Tom@Champion Is a GOD !Tom@Champion Is a GOD !
Honestly, my suggestion would be to return them to the manufacturer or ask for replacements. Carbon fiber is very tricky to work with, and as logic stated, you'll never know exactly what process they used to make the parts, so applying and heat or trying to "bend" them back may only cause the material to crack.
 
  #4  
Old 05-10-2010 | 10:54 PM
KAZ911's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 145
From: Colorado
Rep Power: 20
KAZ911 is infamous around these parts
Well I've had my carbon fiber in my 996 for quite a while. Some of the dash trim is peeling back and coming undone. What should I do in this situation? My cf consists of Gemballa and factory pieces so buying new ones is very expensive. Is there a particular glue/epoxy that works best? If figured if I do the heat treatment plus some kind of glue, it wouldn't be perfect, but at least it would look decent. Any input is appreciated.
 
  #5  
Old 05-11-2010 | 04:07 AM
logic factory's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
From: connecicut
Rep Power: 0
logic factory is infamous around these parts
depending upon how deteriorated the current piece is and how complex the curves are id maybe consider fabricating the piece myself. im not familiar with the dash of your car; could you possible upload a image or link us a generic one from google or the likes? if the piece has larger radius curves this could very well be a beginner's project. the difficulty often comes with pieces that have tight radius bends because the fabric's weave becomes distorted and naturally wouldnt rest in the position your asking it to setup.
as for repairing the current piece. typically when polyester resins and epoxies cure the top layer becomes that of a waxy based one. the problem is then the finish if left raw will be less transparent and also if addition coats are added they wont bond well with the other layers. having said that if you plan on trying to restore the current piece id recommend wet sanding to clean it up thus promoting better adhesion with next coat of resin/epoxy. you can go to a lowes or home depot and get polyester based resins that will work but id advise spending a little extra and getting an epoxy based system. if i recall correctly the expoxies are a less toxic to our bodies when inhaled(should use a mask regardless) and also they tend to have a clearer finish and most the time are more resilient. because of the various expoxies available its important to get one that is well suited for your particular job. i lack the knowledge to recommend a specified type to look for but most manufacturer are happy to explain this all to an open minded customer.

at this point could you post a image to help us better assess the chances of a diy'r being able to pull it off first time.
 
  #6  
Old 05-12-2010 | 09:27 PM
KAZ911's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 145
From: Colorado
Rep Power: 20
KAZ911 is infamous around these parts
Here are a couple pics showing problem areas. Let me know what you think. Thanks in advance
 
Attached Images     
  #7  
Old 05-13-2010 | 01:23 AM
logic factory's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
From: connecicut
Rep Power: 0
logic factory is infamous around these parts
with the exception of that last image with the cf lifting near your gauges the fixes are something i think a typical diy'r could tackle successfully. the last piece being the exception because of the more radical radius's involved relative to rest of pieces.
i believe the reason the pieces tend to lift is because the expansion rates of the materials being different; cf and the dash/trim pieces. having said this im not sure id try and fix the current problem areas without removing the trim pieces because of the mess that is inevitable. the downside is that the manipulation typically required to extract trim pieces will undoubtedly make more problem areas; possible suggesting doing the job all over. im not sure the quality of restore your after but i foresee different colors amongst the new pieces you would try and make and that of the pieces that have been exposed to uv light the last x number of years. if you can tolerate the imperfections a little longer id suggest having someone look at it and possible get a quote to repair. id imagine that most porsche owners time is worth more than mine and theres would much less anxiety involved in having someone else resolve the problem.
i think a realistic fix would involve the removal of the plagued trim pieces and some localized heat (110degrees fahrenheit maybe more than enough depending upon epoxy used) to help make the cf more malleable(sp?) to prevent cracking. than youd need a system to help keep the cf tight to the trim as the adhesive cures. a vacuum chamber comes to mind. this is also the typical way the composite industry will form pieces. i believe those pieces can all be repaired but maybe someone else with more experience would suggest otherwise. if for some reason the pieces need to be made and you have a desire to get the best overall look is suggest having all pieces made again. the alternative is to then wet sand all the remaining good pieces down to the cf and than apply a new top coat this will remove most/all of the yellowing uv damaged cf. if you do wet sand just go carefully and when the milky residue turns a gray it indicates youve burned into cf. if this is a project youd consider im sure the forum can provide addition tips; ill hold off on any more till i hear your game plan.
this project has the potential to provide much satisfaction should you be successful but it may also kinda be out of the question because the time involved. what is your time worth?
 
  #8  
Old 05-13-2010 | 04:30 AM
KAZ911's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 145
From: Colorado
Rep Power: 20
KAZ911 is infamous around these parts
I wouldn't mind spending some time on this but from the sound of this it'll be quite the project. I'm not too concerned about it being perfect. If I can get it glued down without it protruding up I'd be happy for now.
 
  #9  
Old 05-14-2010 | 02:14 AM
logic factory's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
From: connecicut
Rep Power: 0
logic factory is infamous around these parts
caveat: my current line of work has me attempting to limit the expected humane errors by offering cautions when working with my clients and apologize if it seams like im patronizing you with details you already have considered; this is not my intention.

i enjoy your ambition and because of which ill attempt to highlight some areas that may help this project come out satisfactory.

i already cautioned you what to expect when removing the trim pieces. to reiterate be careful and take your time as i expect the current situation with the cf lifting to only become exacerbated. im sure there is a diy available on this forum that offers tips specifically to your porsche that should help alleviate most problems. to be honest i assess this step to be the most difficult.

next you'll began to understand the depth of your problems with the cf. i think it may be as simple as using some adhesive and some light heat to help manipulate the cf back into its original formed shape when it was attached to the trim pieces.

as i mentioned previously, a vacuum chamber is was most would use in this industry but that might not be a realistic resource you can either make or get your hands on. here is a link that suggest a diy approach to creating a vacuum chamber to assist in the reattaching of the cf to trim. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jOxhQ1lhV8

some generic advice ive encountered over my lifetime; having the right tool for the job makes the job increasingly easier to achieve satisfactory results. this is not to say that improvising with what resources one has cant achieve similar or better results than using the "proper tool" its just that typically its more difficult to do so. reading this caution after me posting a link on making a vacuum chamber has you thinking you need one to have this job work, thats not the case at all. if you have one readily available from a friend for little more than a favor than yeah use it but i believe one can achieve satisfactory results improvising to keep the surfaces together as the set-up.

the important thing to consider with this step is to have as much of the lifted surface area filled with some adhesive and also then have as much of the lifted area have contact again with the trim piece. depending upon the material of the trim piece id think there might be better adhesives that promote a better bond than that of epoxies.

depending upon how seamless this process goes for you id almost consider reconditioning the cf by wet-sanding all the pieces and applying a new uv protective coat of epoxy when done.

a couple important decisions that you will need to make:
what type of adhesive to use that will promote the best bond with the cf and trim pieces?
how to keep the cf tight to the trim piece as the adhesive used sets up?

i will not limit your imagination on how to accomplish this last task but will stress the importance of containing the damage. im referring to both exterior and interior edges of the affected area. any lifted area that is neglected will be allowed to expand and contract at different rates than the rest of the bonded areas and over time will fall victim to your current predicament. one last caution; one should strive to distribute the pressure necessary to keep the pieces harmonious when drying spread over the intier(sp?) surface. i offer this caution because i can see someone using an heavy object whos weight is localized and will result a distorted trim piece, blemish within the surface or a combination of both.
 
  #10  
Old 05-14-2010 | 11:02 PM
pnwpirelli's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 24
From: Washington State
Rep Power: 0
pnwpirelli is infamous around these parts
Just put my pieces on today. The Porsche dealer ordered adhesive tape, and I brought in Klebt+Dichtet Schwarz Bond + Seal Black (left over from my Techart trim). We really weren't sure when the parts came in. It was Cayenne door sill trim - 2 were wavy. But so far so good!
 
  #11  
Old 05-15-2010 | 01:16 PM
KAZ911's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 145
From: Colorado
Rep Power: 20
KAZ911 is infamous around these parts
Originally Posted by logic factory
caveat: my current line of work has me attempting to limit the expected humane errors by offering cautions when working with my clients and apologize if it seams like im patronizing you with details you already have considered; this is not my intention.

i enjoy your ambition and because of which ill attempt to highlight some areas that may help this project come out satisfactory.

i already cautioned you what to expect when removing the trim pieces. to reiterate be careful and take your time as i expect the current situation with the cf lifting to only become exacerbated. im sure there is a diy available on this forum that offers tips specifically to your porsche that should help alleviate most problems. to be honest i assess this step to be the most difficult.

next you'll began to understand the depth of your problems with the cf. i think it may be as simple as using some adhesive and some light heat to help manipulate the cf back into its original formed shape when it was attached to the trim pieces.

as i mentioned previously, a vacuum chamber is was most would use in this industry but that might not be a realistic resource you can either make or get your hands on. here is a link that suggest a diy approach to creating a vacuum chamber to assist in the reattaching of the cf to trim. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jOxhQ1lhV8

some generic advice ive encountered over my lifetime; having the right tool for the job makes the job increasingly easier to achieve satisfactory results. this is not to say that improvising with what resources one has cant achieve similar or better results than using the "proper tool" its just that typically its more difficult to do so. reading this caution after me posting a link on making a vacuum chamber has you thinking you need one to have this job work, thats not the case at all. if you have one readily available from a friend for little more than a favor than yeah use it but i believe one can achieve satisfactory results improvising to keep the surfaces together as the set-up.

the important thing to consider with this step is to have as much of the lifted surface area filled with some adhesive and also then have as much of the lifted area have contact again with the trim piece. depending upon the material of the trim piece id think there might be better adhesives that promote a better bond than that of epoxies.

depending upon how seamless this process goes for you id almost consider reconditioning the cf by wet-sanding all the pieces and applying a new uv protective coat of epoxy when done.

a couple important decisions that you will need to make:
what type of adhesive to use that will promote the best bond with the cf and trim pieces?
how to keep the cf tight to the trim piece as the adhesive used sets up?

i will not limit your imagination on how to accomplish this last task but will stress the importance of containing the damage. im referring to both exterior and interior edges of the affected area. any lifted area that is neglected will be allowed to expand and contract at different rates than the rest of the bonded areas and over time will fall victim to your current predicament. one last caution; one should strive to distribute the pressure necessary to keep the pieces harmonious when drying spread over the intier(sp?) surface. i offer this caution because i can see someone using an heavy object whos weight is localized and will result a distorted trim piece, blemish within the surface or a combination of both.

Thank you for your input. I think i'm going out to search for an adhesive that'll work for this situation and someway try to find a way to distribute weight evenly while it's drying. This seems quite a bit more difficult than i thought, but I think it can definitely be done as a DIY project.
 
  #12  
Old 05-15-2010 | 02:05 PM
logic factory's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
From: connecicut
Rep Power: 0
logic factory is infamous around these parts
this is very tangible diy project i was descriptive in an effort to outline as many variables i could. some people look at things as black and white and theres nothing wrong with that, sometimes solutions work first try. if one reads or looks at a task in a grey scale i believe they are better prepared and run a higher probability of completing task first try.

if you are at all apprehensive about the procedure you'll follow for holding the cf down as the adhesive sets up post your idea here, we might be able to provide some feedback one way or the other.
 
  #13  
Old 05-15-2010 | 02:28 PM
contigo's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 784
From: Colombia
Rep Power: 65
contigo has a brilliant futurecontigo has a brilliant futurecontigo has a brilliant futurecontigo has a brilliant futurecontigo has a brilliant futurecontigo has a brilliant futurecontigo has a brilliant futurecontigo has a brilliant futurecontigo has a brilliant futurecontigo has a brilliant futurecontigo has a brilliant future
How about pieces that are cracked? Any solution?
 
  #14  
Old 05-15-2010 | 02:39 PM
dfwerdoc's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 593
From: texas
Rep Power: 52
dfwerdoc has much to be proud ofdfwerdoc has much to be proud ofdfwerdoc has much to be proud ofdfwerdoc has much to be proud ofdfwerdoc has much to be proud ofdfwerdoc has much to be proud ofdfwerdoc has much to be proud ofdfwerdoc has much to be proud ofdfwerdoc has much to be proud ofdfwerdoc has much to be proud of
i think you should replace all that ..... contact macarbon or rotec or dbcarbon. not only are those pieces warped but they're discolored.
 
  #15  
Old 05-15-2010 | 03:25 PM
logic factory's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6
From: connecicut
Rep Power: 0
logic factory is infamous around these parts
Originally Posted by contigo
How about pieces that are cracked? Any solution?
wet sand the top layer off. wet sand until you reach the cf weave; you'll know when you do because the typical milky residue from wet sanding will become grey.
some clear spray paint might be able to penetrate the cracks too.
Originally Posted by dfwerdoc
not only are those pieces warped but they're discolored.
exposing most interior's to the sun's rays will result in whats imaged above. one can drive sparingly during high sun and spend copious time applying protective products to exposed surfaces or they can accept the risk and enjoy other elements of the car; perhaps lateral and longitudinal agility.
 


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:52 PM.