are the barrels of 3 piece wheels forged ?
#1
01-07-2009, 04:52 PM
are the barrels of 3 piece wheels forged ?
not the lip, and not the center
but the barrel ..
is it a forged piece ?
the guy that fixes my wheels says its spun aluminium (not forged)
so the question is , is the barrel of an i-forged/hre/360 wheel forged ?
but the barrel ..
is it a forged piece ?
the guy that fixes my wheels says its spun aluminium (not forged)
so the question is , is the barrel of an i-forged/hre/360 wheel forged ?
#2
01-07-2009, 08:49 PM
I found this on a site,hope it helps:
Multi-Piece Wheels
This type of wheel utilizes two or three components assembled together to produce a finished wheel. Multi-piece wheels can use many different methods of manufacturing. Centers can be cast in various methods or forged. The rim sections for 3-piece wheels are normally spun from disks of aluminum. Generally, spun rim sections offer the ability to custom-tailor wheels for special applications that would not be available otherwise. The rim sections are bolted to the center and normally a sealant is applied in or on the assembly area to seal the wheel. This type of 3-piece construction was originally developed for racing in the early 1970s and has been used on cars ever since. The 3-piece wheels are most popular in the 17" and larger diameters.
Multi-Piece Wheels
This type of wheel utilizes two or three components assembled together to produce a finished wheel. Multi-piece wheels can use many different methods of manufacturing. Centers can be cast in various methods or forged. The rim sections for 3-piece wheels are normally spun from disks of aluminum. Generally, spun rim sections offer the ability to custom-tailor wheels for special applications that would not be available otherwise. The rim sections are bolted to the center and normally a sealant is applied in or on the assembly area to seal the wheel. This type of 3-piece construction was originally developed for racing in the early 1970s and has been used on cars ever since. The 3-piece wheels are most popular in the 17" and larger diameters.
Last edited by justatoy; 01-07-2009 at 09:28 PM.
#3
01-07-2009, 09:33 PM
Spun
The barrels on 3pc rims are spun from sheet, usually 6061-O and heat-treated to 6061-T6 or from 5454 which is a cold-worked aluminum and gains its strength not from heat-treatment but the spinning process itself. 6061-O starts out very soft and then hardens as it is spun. It is then heat treated to a T4 condition and then subsequently heat treat aged to a T6 condition. This is very typical of most 3pc in the U.S. HREs and the BBS LM are like this and it is methodology HRE will use in-house when we get our new rim spinning machine up and running.
5454 has a higher toughness which means it can absorb a little more energy before cracking than 6061-T6 but 6061-T6 has a higher yield strength and therefore requires a higher level of load to cause the initial bend which occurs before the crack. 6061-T6 is generally regarded as the better material in this trade-off but both can make a good part.
The spinning methodology is very dependent on the process, the person, the tooling and the machine. Most refer to it as a black art. For HRE, we can't accept this. It will have to become an engineering exercise that we understand fully before we will fully commit to making parts using this methodology ourselves. We know it is possible. It just costs a lot in tooling and simulation tools that are not typically used today. We'll invest accordingly to ensure we make the best parts possible. We wouldn't invest 7 figures in this capability just to make what we can buy now. For us it has to be able to improve the quality.
I think some 3pc rims also use non-spun barrels (cast) and some use castings that are spun. BBS uses this method for its 1pc cast wheels. Instead of casting the barrel they cast the face and spin the barrel to make a 1pc cast/spun wheel just like you make a 1pc forged/spun wheel. It makes a very nice cast wheel.
1pc forged wheels also have a spun barrel. The difference is that it obviously doesn't start from sheet but starts from a 6061 forging. It is also subsequently heat-treated to a T6 condition. When you spin from a solid it is typically referred to as flow-forming while spinning from sheet is typically referred to as spun. Our 1pc forged (and all 1pc forged that I know of) are forged/flow-formed.
I have also seen rims spun from a solid (flow-formed) out of 6061-T6 which is basically the same process used to make a 1pc. These are costly as you're starting from a solid and throwing most of the center part away but you can make a very good part because you don't spin in the final geometry (you don't have that control on a solid) but you machine the final geometry. We bought some parts like this once from a company here in SoCal with really high hopes thinking they were going to be great parts, but they turned out to be junk and we have had to scrap hundreds of them. Just because they started from a forging didn't mean they were a good part in the end. It was a disappointing and expensive lesson but it shows that the partner is most important. If you're working with the right supplier then you'll get good parts. If you work with a bad partner you'll get junk. If APP (our forging supplier) had made these rims for us this probably wouldn't have been an issue as they spin/flow-form our current 1pc to extremely high tolerances and quality levels but they don't offer just rims. Too bad.
There are also "net" forgings which are typical in OE forged applications where lower unit costs and higher volumes are typical. In these instances the spokes are not machined out but are forged with only light machining to remove the windows. This is tooling intensive and not very flexible, but it does make a great part and is cheaper on a unit volume due to the lower material volume required. It isn't there to cut away. Many Rays (Volk) wheels are made this way. In comparison, an HRE forged 1pc are forged/machined which means the P43 comes from the same forging as the P40. Both make a fantastic wheel.
I see a lot of people worrying about "fully" forged wheels vs. forged/spun wheels. Basically I've never seen a fully forged wheel as forging a barrel isn't feasible (at least not easily). When done properly, the spinning process changes the grain structure of the aluminum in a similar manner to forging and imparts similar benefits so maybe this is where some of the confusion comes from. I'm not sure.
I hope that helps. I didn't see your main concern but if there is a concern about this but I can try to address them if you have any.
5454 has a higher toughness which means it can absorb a little more energy before cracking than 6061-T6 but 6061-T6 has a higher yield strength and therefore requires a higher level of load to cause the initial bend which occurs before the crack. 6061-T6 is generally regarded as the better material in this trade-off but both can make a good part.
The spinning methodology is very dependent on the process, the person, the tooling and the machine. Most refer to it as a black art. For HRE, we can't accept this. It will have to become an engineering exercise that we understand fully before we will fully commit to making parts using this methodology ourselves. We know it is possible. It just costs a lot in tooling and simulation tools that are not typically used today. We'll invest accordingly to ensure we make the best parts possible. We wouldn't invest 7 figures in this capability just to make what we can buy now. For us it has to be able to improve the quality.
I think some 3pc rims also use non-spun barrels (cast) and some use castings that are spun. BBS uses this method for its 1pc cast wheels. Instead of casting the barrel they cast the face and spin the barrel to make a 1pc cast/spun wheel just like you make a 1pc forged/spun wheel. It makes a very nice cast wheel.
1pc forged wheels also have a spun barrel. The difference is that it obviously doesn't start from sheet but starts from a 6061 forging. It is also subsequently heat-treated to a T6 condition. When you spin from a solid it is typically referred to as flow-forming while spinning from sheet is typically referred to as spun. Our 1pc forged (and all 1pc forged that I know of) are forged/flow-formed.
I have also seen rims spun from a solid (flow-formed) out of 6061-T6 which is basically the same process used to make a 1pc. These are costly as you're starting from a solid and throwing most of the center part away but you can make a very good part because you don't spin in the final geometry (you don't have that control on a solid) but you machine the final geometry. We bought some parts like this once from a company here in SoCal with really high hopes thinking they were going to be great parts, but they turned out to be junk and we have had to scrap hundreds of them. Just because they started from a forging didn't mean they were a good part in the end. It was a disappointing and expensive lesson but it shows that the partner is most important. If you're working with the right supplier then you'll get good parts. If you work with a bad partner you'll get junk. If APP (our forging supplier) had made these rims for us this probably wouldn't have been an issue as they spin/flow-form our current 1pc to extremely high tolerances and quality levels but they don't offer just rims. Too bad.
There are also "net" forgings which are typical in OE forged applications where lower unit costs and higher volumes are typical. In these instances the spokes are not machined out but are forged with only light machining to remove the windows. This is tooling intensive and not very flexible, but it does make a great part and is cheaper on a unit volume due to the lower material volume required. It isn't there to cut away. Many Rays (Volk) wheels are made this way. In comparison, an HRE forged 1pc are forged/machined which means the P43 comes from the same forging as the P40. Both make a fantastic wheel.
I see a lot of people worrying about "fully" forged wheels vs. forged/spun wheels. Basically I've never seen a fully forged wheel as forging a barrel isn't feasible (at least not easily). When done properly, the spinning process changes the grain structure of the aluminum in a similar manner to forging and imparts similar benefits so maybe this is where some of the confusion comes from. I'm not sure.
I hope that helps. I didn't see your main concern but if there is a concern about this but I can try to address them if you have any.
Last edited by HRE_Alan; 01-07-2009 at 09:36 PM.
#4
01-08-2009, 10:27 AM
Instead of sending you in 10 different directions I`ll answer your question clearly. No, the inner and outer halves of a 3PC "forged" wheel are not forged. They are spun aluminum, cast, or extruded aluminum. Not technically cast but not forged either. They are, however, marketed as a "forged" wheel since the centers are typically forged.
#5
01-08-2009, 05:21 PM
ok
when i got my iforged wheels
i asked the owner, vince
IS THE ENTIRE WHEEL FORGED
he said yes
then i specified
are all 3 pieces of the wheel forged
his answer was yes
the guy that polishes my wheels, and fixes and curb rash told me they were spun
when i got my iforged wheels
i asked the owner, vince
IS THE ENTIRE WHEEL FORGED
he said yes
then i specified
are all 3 pieces of the wheel forged
his answer was yes
the guy that polishes my wheels, and fixes and curb rash told me they were spun
#7
01-12-2009, 11:31 AM
Registered User
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The barrels on 3pc rims are spun from sheet, usually 6061-O and heat-treated to 6061-T6 or from 5454 which is a cold-worked aluminum and gains its strength not from heat-treatment but the spinning process itself. 6061-O starts out very soft and then hardens as it is spun. It is then heat treated to a T4 condition and then subsequently heat treat aged to a T6 condition. This is very typical of most 3pc in the U.S. HREs and the BBS LM are like this and it is methodology HRE will use in-house when we get our new rim spinning machine up and running.
5454 has a higher toughness which means it can absorb a little more energy before cracking than 6061-T6 but 6061-T6 has a higher yield strength and therefore requires a higher level of load to cause the initial bend which occurs before the crack. 6061-T6 is generally regarded as the better material in this trade-off but both can make a good part.
The spinning methodology is very dependent on the process, the person, the tooling and the machine. Most refer to it as a black art. For HRE, we can't accept this. It will have to become an engineering exercise that we understand fully before we will fully commit to making parts using this methodology ourselves. We know it is possible. It just costs a lot in tooling and simulation tools that are not typically used today. We'll invest accordingly to ensure we make the best parts possible. We wouldn't invest 7 figures in this capability just to make what we can buy now. For us it has to be able to improve the quality.
I think some 3pc rims also use non-spun barrels (cast) and some use castings that are spun. BBS uses this method for its 1pc cast wheels. Instead of casting the barrel they cast the face and spin the barrel to make a 1pc cast/spun wheel just like you make a 1pc forged/spun wheel. It makes a very nice cast wheel.
1pc forged wheels also have a spun barrel. The difference is that it obviously doesn't start from sheet but starts from a 6061 forging. It is also subsequently heat-treated to a T6 condition. When you spin from a solid it is typically referred to as flow-forming while spinning from sheet is typically referred to as spun. Our 1pc forged (and all 1pc forged that I know of) are forged/flow-formed.
I have also seen rims spun from a solid (flow-formed) out of 6061-T6 which is basically the same process used to make a 1pc. These are costly as you're starting from a solid and throwing most of the center part away but you can make a very good part because you don't spin in the final geometry (you don't have that control on a solid) but you machine the final geometry. We bought some parts like this once from a company here in SoCal with really high hopes thinking they were going to be great parts, but they turned out to be junk and we have had to scrap hundreds of them. Just because they started from a forging didn't mean they were a good part in the end. It was a disappointing and expensive lesson but it shows that the partner is most important. If you're working with the right supplier then you'll get good parts. If you work with a bad partner you'll get junk. If APP (our forging supplier) had made these rims for us this probably wouldn't have been an issue as they spin/flow-form our current 1pc to extremely high tolerances and quality levels but they don't offer just rims. Too bad.
There are also "net" forgings which are typical in OE forged applications where lower unit costs and higher volumes are typical. In these instances the spokes are not machined out but are forged with only light machining to remove the windows. This is tooling intensive and not very flexible, but it does make a great part and is cheaper on a unit volume due to the lower material volume required. It isn't there to cut away. Many Rays (Volk) wheels are made this way. In comparison, an HRE forged 1pc are forged/machined which means the P43 comes from the same forging as the P40. Both make a fantastic wheel.
I see a lot of people worrying about "fully" forged wheels vs. forged/spun wheels. Basically I've never seen a fully forged wheel as forging a barrel isn't feasible (at least not easily). When done properly, the spinning process changes the grain structure of the aluminum in a similar manner to forging and imparts similar benefits so maybe this is where some of the confusion comes from. I'm not sure.
I hope that helps. I didn't see your main concern but if there is a concern about this but I can try to address them if you have any.
5454 has a higher toughness which means it can absorb a little more energy before cracking than 6061-T6 but 6061-T6 has a higher yield strength and therefore requires a higher level of load to cause the initial bend which occurs before the crack. 6061-T6 is generally regarded as the better material in this trade-off but both can make a good part.
The spinning methodology is very dependent on the process, the person, the tooling and the machine. Most refer to it as a black art. For HRE, we can't accept this. It will have to become an engineering exercise that we understand fully before we will fully commit to making parts using this methodology ourselves. We know it is possible. It just costs a lot in tooling and simulation tools that are not typically used today. We'll invest accordingly to ensure we make the best parts possible. We wouldn't invest 7 figures in this capability just to make what we can buy now. For us it has to be able to improve the quality.
I think some 3pc rims also use non-spun barrels (cast) and some use castings that are spun. BBS uses this method for its 1pc cast wheels. Instead of casting the barrel they cast the face and spin the barrel to make a 1pc cast/spun wheel just like you make a 1pc forged/spun wheel. It makes a very nice cast wheel.
1pc forged wheels also have a spun barrel. The difference is that it obviously doesn't start from sheet but starts from a 6061 forging. It is also subsequently heat-treated to a T6 condition. When you spin from a solid it is typically referred to as flow-forming while spinning from sheet is typically referred to as spun. Our 1pc forged (and all 1pc forged that I know of) are forged/flow-formed.
I have also seen rims spun from a solid (flow-formed) out of 6061-T6 which is basically the same process used to make a 1pc. These are costly as you're starting from a solid and throwing most of the center part away but you can make a very good part because you don't spin in the final geometry (you don't have that control on a solid) but you machine the final geometry. We bought some parts like this once from a company here in SoCal with really high hopes thinking they were going to be great parts, but they turned out to be junk and we have had to scrap hundreds of them. Just because they started from a forging didn't mean they were a good part in the end. It was a disappointing and expensive lesson but it shows that the partner is most important. If you're working with the right supplier then you'll get good parts. If you work with a bad partner you'll get junk. If APP (our forging supplier) had made these rims for us this probably wouldn't have been an issue as they spin/flow-form our current 1pc to extremely high tolerances and quality levels but they don't offer just rims. Too bad.
There are also "net" forgings which are typical in OE forged applications where lower unit costs and higher volumes are typical. In these instances the spokes are not machined out but are forged with only light machining to remove the windows. This is tooling intensive and not very flexible, but it does make a great part and is cheaper on a unit volume due to the lower material volume required. It isn't there to cut away. Many Rays (Volk) wheels are made this way. In comparison, an HRE forged 1pc are forged/machined which means the P43 comes from the same forging as the P40. Both make a fantastic wheel.
I see a lot of people worrying about "fully" forged wheels vs. forged/spun wheels. Basically I've never seen a fully forged wheel as forging a barrel isn't feasible (at least not easily). When done properly, the spinning process changes the grain structure of the aluminum in a similar manner to forging and imparts similar benefits so maybe this is where some of the confusion comes from. I'm not sure.
I hope that helps. I didn't see your main concern but if there is a concern about this but I can try to address them if you have any.
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#8
01-12-2009, 01:17 PM
Not sure...
The Monobloks are going to be stronger against pot holes but they're not unbendable. The C-Series rims are replaceable if you do damage them and the stepped-lip rolled outer is the strongest design for a 3pc outer. I'm honestly not sure what I'd recommend on this one. Maybe I'll get some feedback from one of our sales reps as they probably hear feedback of this sort from NY more often than I do.
I imagine you should stick with 19" though. 20" in NY is asking for trouble... although we do sell a lot of 20s in NY.
I imagine you should stick with 19" though. 20" in NY is asking for trouble... although we do sell a lot of 20s in NY.
#9
01-12-2009, 08:51 PM
Were do you get your wheels refinished? If my LMs don't sell by spring, I'm going to to have them polished and rash repaired.
#10
01-13-2009, 06:07 PM
ALSO worth noting - what grade are the barrels. The top brands (like HRE, nudge nudge Alan 
) use T6-6061 for every component but the centercaps and the bolts. Others use lower grades.
On that note - Alan! Who's leg do I have to hump to get more brochures! Ever since Marc left it's been a battle 
) use T6-6061 for every component but the centercaps and the bolts. Others use lower grades.On that note - Alan! Who's leg do I have to hump to get more brochures!
Ever since Marc left it's been a battle
#11
01-14-2009, 11:03 AM
Jon,
It was a pleasure speaking to you today. All your guys are now on my distribution list and I'm sending you marketing material, I'll keep you posted in the display. You have my direct dial and e-mail, don't hesitate to use them!
I look foward to working with you.
Matt
It was a pleasure speaking to you today. All your guys are now on my distribution list and I'm sending you marketing material, I'll keep you posted in the display. You have my direct dial and e-mail, don't hesitate to use them!
I look foward to working with you.
Matt
#12
01-14-2009, 12:27 PM
Jon,
It was a pleasure speaking to you today. All your guys are now on my distribution list and I'm sending you marketing material, I'll keep you posted in the display. You have my direct dial and e-mail, don't hesitate to use them!
I look foward to working with you.
Matt
It was a pleasure speaking to you today. All your guys are now on my distribution list and I'm sending you marketing material, I'll keep you posted in the display. You have my direct dial and e-mail, don't hesitate to use them!
I look foward to working with you.
Matt
Looking forward to all the goodies in the mail
JL
#13
01-14-2009, 08:11 PM
No.
I'd estimate that 99%+ of the product sold by HRE uses 6061-T6. Some of our older designs like 540 with the standard drop center (rarely sold) still use 5454. For our reverse drop center and Competition Series we use 6061-T6. We have used some 5454 for reverse drop center if we've have an inventory shortfall in 6061-T6 but that is very rare occurrance these days.
The latest 5454 rims on the market (ARS has improved immensely and Work were always good) seem to be pretty nice so I'm less inclined to say HRE will only use 6061-T6 going forward but for our own rim spinning machine, we do plan to use 6061-T6.
As I mentioned, 6061-T6 has a higher yield strength so you can make a lighter rim. 5454 has a higher toughness so it will bend more before it cracks. For us 6061-T6 holds the advantage and is why we use it as our primary rim.
We do use 6061-T6 for the centers but just about everyone does. The bolts are either ARP stainless or Alcoa Titanium for our current models. For our older models (which we still make in rare cases) we used chrome high-strength steel bolts.
The latest 5454 rims on the market (ARS has improved immensely and Work were always good) seem to be pretty nice so I'm less inclined to say HRE will only use 6061-T6 going forward but for our own rim spinning machine, we do plan to use 6061-T6.
As I mentioned, 6061-T6 has a higher yield strength so you can make a lighter rim. 5454 has a higher toughness so it will bend more before it cracks. For us 6061-T6 holds the advantage and is why we use it as our primary rim.
We do use 6061-T6 for the centers but just about everyone does. The bolts are either ARP stainless or Alcoa Titanium for our current models. For our older models (which we still make in rare cases) we used chrome high-strength steel bolts.
Last edited by HRE_Alan; 01-14-2009 at 08:13 PM.
#14
01-16-2009, 02:55 PM
Just stop by.
I know you're a competitor but I offer a personal invitation to you to come visit and I will show you the thousands of 6061-T6 parts sitting on our shelves and I'll show you the spinning machine with raw 6061-O sheets being spun into prototypes. We have over $1M in 6061-T6 inventory. I'll also show you our considerably smaller 5454 inventory for comparison and you'll see that it isn't for our current products.
HRE used to use only 5454 but several years ago we switched to 6061-T6. That doesn't mean we don't use 5454 sometimes and that doesn't mean we won't use it in the future. Frankly I think the 6061-T6 vs. 5454 thing is overblown, but HRE is using 6061-T6 so I REALLY don't understand the issue. I'm basically defending what our competitors are using. On that note, what material do you use?
On a separate note, as for servicing an HRE wheel, we strongly recommend all service is sent to HRE as we can guarantee the work is done properly and so that it doesn't void the warranty. BTW, if the wheel you're going to service is from 2001, it very well may be 5454. Much later and it is probably 6061-T6.
#15
01-17-2009, 01:15 PM
some quotes from a guy from M3forum.com and his views regarding HRE wheels
Obioban was just trying to make a point. Maybe you should do some more research before defending a product that you cleary don't know anything about. If you like your wheels based strictly on how they look, then that's your choice. But don't try to act like someone is attacking HRE's great build quality...because it doesn't exist. The material composition of any HRE wheel is suspect at best. (the entire catalog) You SHOULD be hurling any negative or strongly worded statements at HRE on there questionable build construction decisions.
*Note: I'm REALLY getting tired of seeing threads posted on this board by people who have absolutely no idea what it takes to build a world class quality wheel.
I'm going to stick my neck out and make an extremely BOLD statement here:
If some of you knew exactly how your wheels were really built, there would be a number of unhappy people around here.
If you don't do the work on what/where/how your wheels are made, stop comparing them to anything else. Even if you have owned several different sets of the wheels on the same car, the sample size is too small to draw any logical conclusions. Material build construction materials and manufacturing processes are of paramount importance when building an aftermarket wheel that sits at the top of the food chain. If you don't put in the time, money, and effort necessary at that point, then there is nothing you can do later on to make it better.
IF your wheels are truly built to the highest world class quality standards, they must posses these traits:
*They will use the highest-graded aluminum alloy available today for building aftermarket wheels (A6061-T6)
*They will use the best wheel manufacturing standards in the industry, depending on the chosen path:
*For forged wheels: 8000 TON SPREAD FORGING (Monoblock or Multi-piece wheels)
BTW: The best cast wheels on the market use FLOW FORMING technology. (BBS calls their version of this relatively new technology 'Spun Casting')
When you build your wheels to meet the above requirements:
Then, and ONLY then, can you call your wheels the best on the market. Stop falling for the marketing hype that you are being told.
Listen up people, HRE doesn't make truly FORGED wheels, they never have... ever.
*Note: I'm REALLY getting tired of seeing threads posted on this board by people who have absolutely no idea what it takes to build a world class quality wheel.
I'm going to stick my neck out and make an extremely BOLD statement here:
If some of you knew exactly how your wheels were really built, there would be a number of unhappy people around here.
If you don't do the work on what/where/how your wheels are made, stop comparing them to anything else. Even if you have owned several different sets of the wheels on the same car, the sample size is too small to draw any logical conclusions. Material build construction materials and manufacturing processes are of paramount importance when building an aftermarket wheel that sits at the top of the food chain. If you don't put in the time, money, and effort necessary at that point, then there is nothing you can do later on to make it better.
IF your wheels are truly built to the highest world class quality standards, they must posses these traits:
*They will use the highest-graded aluminum alloy available today for building aftermarket wheels (A6061-T6)
*They will use the best wheel manufacturing standards in the industry, depending on the chosen path:
*For forged wheels: 8000 TON SPREAD FORGING (Monoblock or Multi-piece wheels)
BTW: The best cast wheels on the market use FLOW FORMING technology. (BBS calls their version of this relatively new technology 'Spun Casting')
When you build your wheels to meet the above requirements:
Then, and ONLY then, can you call your wheels the best on the market. Stop falling for the marketing hype that you are being told.
Listen up people, HRE doesn't make truly FORGED wheels, they never have... ever.
These companies are literally taking you guy's for a ride. I know the truth (as I'm sure snook would agree) about the cheap material and manufacturing processes these brands use to make the wheels they sell to the public. They advertise that their wheels are FORGED when in fact they are not! (that's a partial truth at best and they know it) It's a dishonest statement, and I'm tired of these companies lying to us. FULL DISCLOSURE PLEASE! That type of business practice is unacceptable.
Several well known wheel companies are guilty of this type of underhanded bussiness practice. Any company who uses purposely misleading information to make their products 'appear' to be built to world class quality standards should be exposed. That type of bussiness philosophy tells me that they have a blatant disregard for their customers. Some wheel companies release advertising propaganda stating how the make the finest wheels from the finest materials. That's a lie. By there own admission, I have found out that several companies don't even make any of the parts/componants for the wheels they sell. None, nothing, nada.
You can't have very good quality control program when you have your business setup that way. I also found out that when digging for specific infomation about wheel constuction materials and manufacturing processes,the 'world class materials' many of them use are anything but...
THE UGLY TRUTH:
5000 series aluminum alloy barrels - NOT FORGED (claimed forged but actually 'press rolled' )
It's absolutely pathetic for any company to use this cheap grade of aluminum to build a so-called 'premium' aftermarket wheel.
5000 series aluminum alloy lip componants - NOT FORGED (claimed forged but actually 'press rolled')
NO heat treatment of any kind. (T1 - T6 level which adds strength to the wheel to resist impact damage)
Any company who produces wheels built like this while trying to charge me a fortune in the process, ($4000-$8000+) are trying to play me for a fool. They are showing no repect for me whatsoever. You are charging me a world class price but I'm not getting a world class built product. That's wrong, it's called stealing.
Most manufacturers can be placed in one of two catagories:
A) Make a product that looks good on the outside, BUT is made with cheap quality componants so we can MAXIMIZE OUR PROFIT MARGINS.
or
B) We want to produce products that are made from the best grade of materials and apply the best manufacturing technology available to create finest products on the market for our customers.
It's a choice every company has to make at some point, regardless of what they sell.
How often do you guys take the time to find out the difference? (A versus B) :nixweiss:
It's not always about how good something looks, dig deeper. Sometimes you'll will be surprised at what you find.
Give companies like HRE & IFORGED their walking papers. They are all look and no substance. They've scam us for long enough.
Something to think about...
Several well known wheel companies are guilty of this type of underhanded bussiness practice. Any company who uses purposely misleading information to make their products 'appear' to be built to world class quality standards should be exposed. That type of bussiness philosophy tells me that they have a blatant disregard for their customers. Some wheel companies release advertising propaganda stating how the make the finest wheels from the finest materials. That's a lie. By there own admission, I have found out that several companies don't even make any of the parts/componants for the wheels they sell. None, nothing, nada.
You can't have very good quality control program when you have your business setup that way. I also found out that when digging for specific infomation about wheel constuction materials and manufacturing processes,the 'world class materials' many of them use are anything but...
THE UGLY TRUTH:
5000 series aluminum alloy barrels - NOT FORGED (claimed forged but actually 'press rolled' )
It's absolutely pathetic for any company to use this cheap grade of aluminum to build a so-called 'premium' aftermarket wheel.
5000 series aluminum alloy lip componants - NOT FORGED (claimed forged but actually 'press rolled')
NO heat treatment of any kind. (T1 - T6 level which adds strength to the wheel to resist impact damage)
Any company who produces wheels built like this while trying to charge me a fortune in the process, ($4000-$8000+) are trying to play me for a fool. They are showing no repect for me whatsoever. You are charging me a world class price but I'm not getting a world class built product. That's wrong, it's called stealing.
Most manufacturers can be placed in one of two catagories:
A) Make a product that looks good on the outside, BUT is made with cheap quality componants so we can MAXIMIZE OUR PROFIT MARGINS.
or
B) We want to produce products that are made from the best grade of materials and apply the best manufacturing technology available to create finest products on the market for our customers.
It's a choice every company has to make at some point, regardless of what they sell.
How often do you guys take the time to find out the difference? (A versus B) :nixweiss:
It's not always about how good something looks, dig deeper. Sometimes you'll will be surprised at what you find.
Give companies like HRE & IFORGED their walking papers. They are all look and no substance. They've scam us for long enough.
Something to think about...